Should We Get Cyclists Obeying The Law Before We Double Their Numbers?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29645503
Riding on pavements, through red lights! last thing we need more of these outlaws.

[ToraToraTora]

i don't see any relevance chill, we are discussing cycling, not every ill that can happen. Are you saying that the law should be changed because some other road users are incompetant? Round here it is rare to see a cyclist on the road.

[ChillDoubt]

Well if we're discussing cycling and you've painted pretty much every one as an outlaw there will undoubtedly be the comparison to motorists.
Can you tell me how many cyclists killed a motorist or pedestrian last year?
I'll await that one with bated breath.......

Meanwhile, if you're going to tarnish cyclists as outlaws, cyclists will undoubtedly provide a comeback like mine.
Your argument appears rather weak an ill-thought out.
I would never condone any cyclist running a red light or violating the Highway Code in any other manner, far from it, but given the driving style and possible subsequent consequences of so many drivers out there I cna understand why some ride on the pavement.
I can only hope that thye do so sensibly and give due deference to the pedestrians on it.

[ToraToraTora]

I don't see the relevance of the stats. It's not the point we are discussing. Are you saying that if we can come up with some stats to back up a scenario then it is ok to flout the law in response to arbitrary statistics? On that basis we should legalise hiking on railway lines because no train occupant has ever been killed by running over a hiker in a train!

I am a cyclist myself, I'm only reporting what I see every day.

[ChillDoubt]

I'm a cyclist and motorist too.
Shall I report every instance of bad driving I see every day?
Or the next time the government plans to expand a bypass or widen a motorway shall I brand motorists as perpetual law breakers who need to retake their driving tests before they're allowed on new roads?
It's the same argument as yours.

[Baldric]

///Should We Get Cyclists Obeying The Law///

Yeah, Like that's going to happen!

[ToraToraTora]

"Or the next time the government plans to expand a bypass or widen a motorway shall I brand motorists as perpetual law breakers who need to retake their driving tests before they're allowed on new roads?
It's the same argument as yours. " - you lost me how is illegal cycling comparable to legally driving on newly constructed roads?

[ChillDoubt]

Tell me where I didn't obey the Highway Code in my video please Baldric.
I can tell you where the motorist didn't!

In an ideal world we'll get all motorists obeying the law too, no speeding, no stopping on double yellows, no illegal street races, no illegal overtaking, no driving in bus/cycle lanes when not allowed, no parking too close to a junction, no amber gamblers, no drunk drivers killing innocent road users and pedestrians, no texting drivers killing other drivers.........shall I go on?

[retrocop]

I believe the difference is that any one can go to Halfords and purchase a pedal cycle and ride tyre shod over any rules of the road.They are unlicensed and are not regulated so have very little to lose except their life!!. Motorists receive proper training in road craft before being tested and are licensed and regulated. Whether the motorist continues to obey the Highway code and perfect his driving skills to a higher standard is another matter but a motorist has more to lose should he flout the rules of the road and is actually caught doing so.

[ChillDoubt]

*sigh* For the hard of understanding.......
Take a look at your OP. You are implying that all cyclists flout the rules and that they need to be stopped before new infrastructure is provided for them.

I mirrored the same argument but used motorists.

Geddit? If not, do continue to flounder at your leisure.....

[whiskeryron]

Believe it or not I saw a young male cyclist riding NO HANDED whilst TEXTING recently on a main road.

[ChillDoubt]

Exactly retro, it's all about education, training and starting them young. If the government are only going to pay it lip service, we won't get the standard of riders we'd like nor the infrastructure to support them.

[Baldric]

CD, I haven't even bothered to look at your 'see how good I am' Video as it's been put on here so many times, now you tell me where I said you didn't obey the Highway Code at any time in it!

[retrocop]

I can believe that whiskeyron but have also seen motorists doing likewise !!

[-Talbot-]

What a pathetic cyclist bashing thread.

If cyclists are outlaws so are all motorist (or are we to believe that car, van bus drivers never break the law whilst driving?)

[ChillDoubt]

Didn't claim to be good Balders, just pointed out that I rode to the Highway Code, but then if you choose to ignore what's in front of you, what can I say? Maybe take the blinkers off?
Your broad-spectrum post accuses all cyclists of not following the Highway Code.

[ChillDoubt]

Yeah, lotta that going on Ron.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m58hGFUbICE

[retrocop]

I remember taking the Cycling Profiency Course scheme as an 11 year old.That was in the 1960's and I was'nt allowed to cycle the 11 miles to school without the certificate which I still have
I would dare to suggest that all pedal cycles should be registered and plated (Number).All cyclists should pass a cycling test before allowed to use the road and cycle paths and attain a photo ID card which would allow them to purchase a pedal cycle.(bit like a firearms certificate) and all should have insurance. The revenue could help in providing more cycle paths maybe.Once they have paid for all this and are correctly trained then they may show a little more respect for the RTA and some pride in their skills and will not be regarded,by motorists, as a mickey taking accident waiting to happen. It is,as chilldoubt said,all about education and training.

[ChillDoubt]

But then when you're dealing with this sort of mentality:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2781305/Police-hunt-saboteur-left-hundreds-drawing-pins-cycle-track-bikers-racing-speeds-70mph.html

What would be the likely outcome if I left a bagfull of Stinger spikes all over the road on the RAC Rally I wonder?

[retrocop]

It would certainly put the rally driver's skills to the test Chilldoubt!!

[ToraToraTora]

you are never going to get 100% adherance to the law by cyclists or motorists but the % of lawbreakers in the former is much higher than in the latter. All I'm saying is that we need to get the cycling public to be generally law abiding before we encourage more of them, currently the % of lawbreakers in the cycling fraternity is well into the upper quartile, motorists tend to be mostly legal, probably because of traceability and culpability.