ChatterBank16 mins ago
If Uk Membership Of The Eu Wasn't A Good Thing Why Would Politicians From All The Major Parties...
...want to stay in? We hear plenty about its disadvantages. Who's telling us about the advantages?
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I think, sandyRoe, that everyone knows the financial advantages of the Common Market (which is what we voted for - and the 'ever closer union' bit was very carefully hidden). So perhaps it is felt that the only things to campaign on are minimising the disadvantages? Also ALL the main parties (yawn, I include the Libs) have, until very recently, been hugely pro-Eu. It's a pretty big U-turn to make. Best I can offer at the moment.
Because (on balance) there is more good than bad.
For a start our trade balance would be fecked without EU membership - and don't give me the "we can be in a free trade area without being full EU members" schtick - why would they let us do that?
Most of what people object to, sometimes with good reason, ofeten not, comes from other European institutions (the ECHR for instance) not from the actual EU at all.
For a start our trade balance would be fecked without EU membership - and don't give me the "we can be in a free trade area without being full EU members" schtick - why would they let us do that?
Most of what people object to, sometimes with good reason, ofeten not, comes from other European institutions (the ECHR for instance) not from the actual EU at all.
Most of the arguments against the EU are stirring ones, while most of the arguments in favour are rather dull ones, and when you have most of the political parties falling over themselves to pander to UKIP and their ilk, it merely exacerbates that.
In spite of that, the latest opinion poll shows the standard 4% majority of staying in "if there was a referendum tomorrow".
In spite of that, the latest opinion poll shows the standard 4% majority of staying in "if there was a referendum tomorrow".
What seadogg said. Despite being a country that does relatively well for itself we are locked into a deal whereby we've had to help out the Irish, Portuguese and Greeks because of their failing economies.
Others get fat off our open border and welfare policy yet no one ever seems to be looking out for us.
When will we start to see our (taxpayers) money recouped? Certainly won't be in my lifetime!
Meanwhile we stay in this exclusive club, pay heavily for the privelege and get to be told what to do in regards to everything from human rights to the wattage of our vacuum cleaners, when in reality it feels as if we're being taken to them year after year.
Others get fat off our open border and welfare policy yet no one ever seems to be looking out for us.
When will we start to see our (taxpayers) money recouped? Certainly won't be in my lifetime!
Meanwhile we stay in this exclusive club, pay heavily for the privelege and get to be told what to do in regards to everything from human rights to the wattage of our vacuum cleaners, when in reality it feels as if we're being taken to them year after year.
@Seadogg
// We voted to enter a club of countries with fairly sound economies and high living standards. Today it's a completely different setup. //
Well said.
Someone decided to "spread the wealth" by letting poorer countries join. I don't know who set the criteria but the migration makes it clear they set the bar too low. It's almost as if the French/Germans wanted to shaft us and this was the way to do it.
We are the 'awkward' member of the club who they want to wind up until we are annoyed enough to want to leave voluntarily.
// We voted to enter a club of countries with fairly sound economies and high living standards. Today it's a completely different setup. //
Well said.
Someone decided to "spread the wealth" by letting poorer countries join. I don't know who set the criteria but the migration makes it clear they set the bar too low. It's almost as if the French/Germans wanted to shaft us and this was the way to do it.
We are the 'awkward' member of the club who they want to wind up until we are annoyed enough to want to leave voluntarily.
Well, if Kenneth Clarke says it's good then it must be! :-)
"..we can be in a free trade area without being full EU members" schtick - why would they let us do that?"
Because (a) other nations (Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein, forming the European Free Trade Area and seven more nations forming the Central European Free Trade Area) do it quite successfully to the mutual benefit of both them and the EU and (b) the EU sells far more to the UK than the UK sell to the EU.
People have been bamboozled into believing that if we left the EU all trade between us and them would suddenly cease. Believe it or not it would not. Also believe it or not nations outside the EU manage to trade with each other and with the EU quite successfully.
For forty years the myth has been expounded that nations cannot survive outside the EU. At present, as a direct result of its Federalist, interventionist and centralist policies, that moribund organisation has presided over the decline in fortunes of huge swathes of the continent condemning millions of people to penury. Growth in the eurozone has declined to zero or even less, deflation is a real threat, and a chaotic break up of the single currency is still highly likely. Why on earth should the UK continue to align itself with such a shambles?
"..we can be in a free trade area without being full EU members" schtick - why would they let us do that?"
Because (a) other nations (Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein, forming the European Free Trade Area and seven more nations forming the Central European Free Trade Area) do it quite successfully to the mutual benefit of both them and the EU and (b) the EU sells far more to the UK than the UK sell to the EU.
People have been bamboozled into believing that if we left the EU all trade between us and them would suddenly cease. Believe it or not it would not. Also believe it or not nations outside the EU manage to trade with each other and with the EU quite successfully.
For forty years the myth has been expounded that nations cannot survive outside the EU. At present, as a direct result of its Federalist, interventionist and centralist policies, that moribund organisation has presided over the decline in fortunes of huge swathes of the continent condemning millions of people to penury. Growth in the eurozone has declined to zero or even less, deflation is a real threat, and a chaotic break up of the single currency is still highly likely. Why on earth should the UK continue to align itself with such a shambles?
-- answer removed --
>>>I voted "YES" IN 1975 and I still believe in a unified Europe
I also voted yes but what I voted for is not what we have now.
Many of the recent countries who have joined the EU were enslaved by the USSR at that time so all the countries that originally joined were fairly rich Western countries.
Now we have let anyone and everyone in the EU, countries whose standard of living is FAR below ours.
So it is pretty obvious that people from those poorer countries are going to gravitate here (and to other "rich" countries) to take advantage of the standard of living, free health care, benefits system and so on.
It is a bit like people who live in Mayfair leaving their front doors open and people from Tower Hamlets coming and living in their houses.
I did not vote to have Roma gypsies here, people sleeping in Hyde Park, Romanian criminals skimming my credit card and so on.
The idea of a Common Market is fine, the EU now is a huge unmanageable mess.
The sooner we get out the better.
I also voted yes but what I voted for is not what we have now.
Many of the recent countries who have joined the EU were enslaved by the USSR at that time so all the countries that originally joined were fairly rich Western countries.
Now we have let anyone and everyone in the EU, countries whose standard of living is FAR below ours.
So it is pretty obvious that people from those poorer countries are going to gravitate here (and to other "rich" countries) to take advantage of the standard of living, free health care, benefits system and so on.
It is a bit like people who live in Mayfair leaving their front doors open and people from Tower Hamlets coming and living in their houses.
I did not vote to have Roma gypsies here, people sleeping in Hyde Park, Romanian criminals skimming my credit card and so on.
The idea of a Common Market is fine, the EU now is a huge unmanageable mess.
The sooner we get out the better.
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