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Extremely Worrying, Racist, Or Just Plain Business Sense?
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So basically a young white female in a town where there as been a sustained period of sexual abuse on young white females, should run the risk of rape for fear of being branded a racist?
10:37 Wed 22nd Oct 2014
Old_Geezer - "I can see some may feel safer and thus there is a demand, but it is near the line, if not over it, to pander to folk thinking that, because some members of a group (race in this case) commit something bad all of that group must be tainted with the same suspicion. I would doubt the risk with one race is statistically significantly greater than with another race. I think I'd want to discourage this type of additional service."
I'd like to be associated with the remarks of the last speaker.
I'd like to be associated with the remarks of the last speaker.
Ric.roar - "Strange thing is - no matter where I go most of the taxi drivers I see are asian
I wonder if this is true and, if so, why ..."
i think it is true, and an educated guess suggsts that a lot of Asian businesses will emloy family members, which in the case of extnded families, can be a large number of people.
Therefore, if an Asian proprieter buys a taxi business, he or she can probably staff it entirely with relatives, or friends - hence the large propensity for Asian drivers in most major towns and cities.
I stress this is entirely an educated guess, I am of course open to contrary evidence.
I wonder if this is true and, if so, why ..."
i think it is true, and an educated guess suggsts that a lot of Asian businesses will emloy family members, which in the case of extnded families, can be a large number of people.
Therefore, if an Asian proprieter buys a taxi business, he or she can probably staff it entirely with relatives, or friends - hence the large propensity for Asian drivers in most major towns and cities.
I stress this is entirely an educated guess, I am of course open to contrary evidence.
this isn't particularly irrational, is it? Two Pakistani drivers from a taxi firm are jailed, so customers think they are reducing the risk by asking for white drivers. They may be right, though I suspect the reduction in risk is pretty small and my own response, like ummmm's, would be to use a different taxi firm. It may be prejudiced, it may be wrong, but it's not irrational.
jno - "this isn't particularly irrational, is it?"
I suggest that it is.
It is the facilities for meeting potential victims, and the lack of monitoring while at work that is offered by taxi driving that could be the issue here - so the worry - if anyone were to pursue this as a worry - is in the fact that these men were taxi drivers, not that they were Asian.
I suggest that it is.
It is the facilities for meeting potential victims, and the lack of monitoring while at work that is offered by taxi driving that could be the issue here - so the worry - if anyone were to pursue this as a worry - is in the fact that these men were taxi drivers, not that they were Asian.
AOG - andy-hughes
/// Gromit - "The public can ask for whatever they want." ///
/// Not if it contravenes the law on racism they can't. ///
What if a woman requested a female driver would that contravene the law on sexism?"
If you trawl back through the thread, you will find that a poster with legal knowledge gas corrected my stance on the actions in terms of legality, and that I have withdrawn my position on that aspect of the debate.
So - it is not illegal to request a drive on the basis of ethncitiy, and similarly, it is not illegal to ask for a driver on the basis of gender.
/// Gromit - "The public can ask for whatever they want." ///
/// Not if it contravenes the law on racism they can't. ///
What if a woman requested a female driver would that contravene the law on sexism?"
If you trawl back through the thread, you will find that a poster with legal knowledge gas corrected my stance on the actions in terms of legality, and that I have withdrawn my position on that aspect of the debate.
So - it is not illegal to request a drive on the basis of ethncitiy, and similarly, it is not illegal to ask for a driver on the basis of gender.
jno
From the Guardian report.
http://
/// Campbell, 34, said his father James bought into the Heywood firm in 2011. A few months later, they realised that Car 2000 was at the centre of a major scandal as it emerged that drivers from Eagle Taxis were embroiled in grooming allegations. Mohammed Amin, 45, of Falinge, a driver for 14 years who was known as “Car Zero”, was convicted of sexual assault and received a five-year jail term. ///
/// Abdul Aziz, 41, a married father-of-three from Rochdale who was also a driver, was convicted of trafficking for sexual exploitation, received a nine-year sentence. They were two of nine men initially convicted in a complex trial. ///
/// “We were dead centre at the centre of that debacle. We bought the business knowing nothing,” said Campbell. “If you had lived through the 18 months that I went through you would understand how difficult it has been,” he said. ///
From the Guardian report.
http://
/// Campbell, 34, said his father James bought into the Heywood firm in 2011. A few months later, they realised that Car 2000 was at the centre of a major scandal as it emerged that drivers from Eagle Taxis were embroiled in grooming allegations. Mohammed Amin, 45, of Falinge, a driver for 14 years who was known as “Car Zero”, was convicted of sexual assault and received a five-year jail term. ///
/// Abdul Aziz, 41, a married father-of-three from Rochdale who was also a driver, was convicted of trafficking for sexual exploitation, received a nine-year sentence. They were two of nine men initially convicted in a complex trial. ///
/// “We were dead centre at the centre of that debacle. We bought the business knowing nothing,” said Campbell. “If you had lived through the 18 months that I went through you would understand how difficult it has been,” he said. ///
andy-hughes
/// Indeed - I think the idea of asking for a 'local driver' is simply a way of pretending not to be a racist pig - even if clearly you are one! ///
If it had been a number of white drivers who had been charged, would it also be racist if female Asians requested only Asian drivers to pick them up?
/// Indeed - I think the idea of asking for a 'local driver' is simply a way of pretending not to be a racist pig - even if clearly you are one! ///
If it had been a number of white drivers who had been charged, would it also be racist if female Asians requested only Asian drivers to pick them up?
AOG - "andy-hughes
/// Indeed - I think the idea of asking for a 'local driver' is simply a way of pretending not to be a racist pig - even if clearly you are one! ///
If it had been a number of white drivers who had been charged, would it also be racist if female Asians requested only Asian drivers to pick them up?"
Absolutely.
In my belief, racism is not ethnicity specific - it just seems that way most of the time.
/// Indeed - I think the idea of asking for a 'local driver' is simply a way of pretending not to be a racist pig - even if clearly you are one! ///
If it had been a number of white drivers who had been charged, would it also be racist if female Asians requested only Asian drivers to pick them up?"
Absolutely.
In my belief, racism is not ethnicity specific - it just seems that way most of the time.
andy, people clearly do think it's a worry, hence the story.
We're talking about people trying to predict the future - calculating how they can travel most safely.
Most of us would do that on the basis of what's happened in the past. You ought in theory to be quite right to suggest that what's happened in the past is that people have been abused by cabbies, rather than that people have been abused by Pakistanis.
But it's also rational to narrow your perception of the risk down as far as possible (otherwise you'd be defining it as "getting into cars") - and that's what they're doing, seeing it as a risk related to Pakistani cabbies. As I've said my own answer would be to switch cab companies, but in truth that might be even more irrational, affecting the livelihood of Cab2000 staff of all colours.
I don't much like any of this, but I think it's a rational response to an unpleasant situation - though, I hope, a very short-term one.
We're talking about people trying to predict the future - calculating how they can travel most safely.
Most of us would do that on the basis of what's happened in the past. You ought in theory to be quite right to suggest that what's happened in the past is that people have been abused by cabbies, rather than that people have been abused by Pakistanis.
But it's also rational to narrow your perception of the risk down as far as possible (otherwise you'd be defining it as "getting into cars") - and that's what they're doing, seeing it as a risk related to Pakistani cabbies. As I've said my own answer would be to switch cab companies, but in truth that might be even more irrational, affecting the livelihood of Cab2000 staff of all colours.
I don't much like any of this, but I think it's a rational response to an unpleasant situation - though, I hope, a very short-term one.
andy-hughes
/// The notion that Asian taxi drivers are more or less likely to be sexual predators is an obnoxious biggoted viewpoint, but holding it is not illegal. ///
We are not talking about a normal situation so your point is invalid.
What we are taking about however is a taxi firm which employed two local drivers of Pakistani origin who were jailed for their part in the rape and trafficking of young white girls in the town at the centre of Britain’s biggest grooming scandal.
So I would class any female requesting a white driver to be acting on the side of caution, rather than of them being racist.
/// The notion that Asian taxi drivers are more or less likely to be sexual predators is an obnoxious biggoted viewpoint, but holding it is not illegal. ///
We are not talking about a normal situation so your point is invalid.
What we are taking about however is a taxi firm which employed two local drivers of Pakistani origin who were jailed for their part in the rape and trafficking of young white girls in the town at the centre of Britain’s biggest grooming scandal.
So I would class any female requesting a white driver to be acting on the side of caution, rather than of them being racist.
AOG - "/// The notion that Asian taxi drivers are more or less likely to be sexual predators is an obnoxious biggoted viewpoint, but holding it is not illegal. ///
We are not talking about a normal situation so your point is invalid.
What we are taking about however is a taxi firm which employed two local drivers of Pakistani origin who were jailed for their part in the rape and trafficking of young white girls in the town at the centre of Britain’s biggest grooming scandal.
So I would class any female requesting a white driver to be acting on the side of caution, rather than of them being racist."
Not for the first time, a dedbate on the AB has caused me to re-align my viewpoint on the basis of points made during the course of the day.
I concede that my attitudes in terms of wanting the world to be far more prefect than it ever can be can cloud my judgement, and cause me to speak from an idealistic, rather than realistic point of view.
On that basis I am minded to agree with you that preferring a white taxi driver to an Asian one, wheras it may be groundless in terms of actually offering a safer option, is nonetheless the result of simply human nature, and I would not wish to appear to be trying to suggest that it should be over-ridden in favour of basic idealism.
We are not talking about a normal situation so your point is invalid.
What we are taking about however is a taxi firm which employed two local drivers of Pakistani origin who were jailed for their part in the rape and trafficking of young white girls in the town at the centre of Britain’s biggest grooming scandal.
So I would class any female requesting a white driver to be acting on the side of caution, rather than of them being racist."
Not for the first time, a dedbate on the AB has caused me to re-align my viewpoint on the basis of points made during the course of the day.
I concede that my attitudes in terms of wanting the world to be far more prefect than it ever can be can cloud my judgement, and cause me to speak from an idealistic, rather than realistic point of view.
On that basis I am minded to agree with you that preferring a white taxi driver to an Asian one, wheras it may be groundless in terms of actually offering a safer option, is nonetheless the result of simply human nature, and I would not wish to appear to be trying to suggest that it should be over-ridden in favour of basic idealism.
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