Once Again Why Should Britain Get Involved?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2831249/Paddy-Ashdown-accuses-government-policy-drown-refugees-Mediterranean-blocking-rescue-efforts.html

/// Home Secretary Theresa May is due to meet Italian ministers to discuss the crisis, and will consider requests for more help from Britain. ///

This is Italy's problem, if they want help why do they not ask France where most of these migrants seem to finish up?

/// The Refugee Council has warned that the UK's stance will contribute to more people 'needlessly and shamefully dying on Europe's doorstep'. ///

Not our problem.

[Gromit]

He wants the SAS to target the people traffickers. They are the people who pack these unsafe boats and send them out to sea.

// He added: 'Why does the Government's policy seem to be to support measures that can have only one result - to drown more refugees in the Mediterranean - rather than a policy whose aim is to lock up more people traffickers?

'Only one has ever been arrested—in Egypt, which is one of the main departure countries.'

He urged the government to deploy the SAS in a targeted mission to root out those responsible for the trade in vulnerable people. //

I find it hard not to agree with him. Better to stop the people starting their journey, than be clueless what to do with them when they get off the back of a lorry at Dover.

[Old_Geezer]

Mixed feelings.

For sure it is best to sort out a cause of a problem than mop up the symptoms, but apart from a general humanitarian consideration of helping other individuals who are in trouble, the rescuing of folk off the Italian/Egyptian coast does seem to be the responsibility of nearby countries.

Maybe ending support for rescue operations for illegal immigrants there might free up finance to help fund targeting of the people traffickers. But even then that would be a concession. The countries where this is going on really has such the responsibility to stop it. Perhaps Egypt isn't rich enough to fund a police force ?

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

Agree to a certain extent, but why should we get involved, when France has a bigger problem, with the hordes of them in Calais, than we do with the few that are successful in coming here in lorries etc.

[vulcan42]

Italy has the 9th parachute assault regiment which is modelled on the SAS, why can't they be deployed?

[anotheoldgit]

Perhaps we would be better condemning them for the criminals that they are, rather than classing them as the victims of others?

[Gromit]

Illegal immigration from outside the EU is a problem which affects ALL of Europe, so ALL of Europe should contribute to securing the EU borders.

Internal EU borders have been removed, so money saved on those should be used on shoring up the external borders.

Never thought I would read AOG claim that illegal immigration from across the channel was just a "few".

// ...the few that are successful in coming here in lorries etc.

[Gromit]

// Perhaps we would be better condemning them for the criminals that they are, rather than classing them as the victims of others? //

Probably because by most peoples' definition, they are not criminals. They live in a *** place and desperately want to leave. That may be because their life depends on it if they are trapped in a war zone. They have paid large sums of money to escape.

Refugees are not criminals. If they were, Cameron, Miliband and Farage would be decendents of criminals.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

/// Internal EU borders have been removed, so money saved on those should be used on shoring up the external borders. ///

Better for all EU borders to be closed, in admittance that the EU open border policy was a complete failure.

/// Never thought I would read AOG claim that illegal immigration from across the channel was just a "few". ///

In comparison Gromit to the amount coming into Italy and then into France.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

There is a difference between immigrants and refugees, who have gone through the proper procedures, and illegal refugees.

The word criminal is a person who commits something which is illegal.

[ToraToraTora]

I agree lets help stop it at source. In the mean time it maybe we should look at why these refugess think that Britain is the land of milk and honey, just a thought.

[youngmafbog]

It's because we pay too much out in benefits.

We should address this and pay the minimum allowed under EU rules, that way we get two gains
1) We no longer would be the land of milk and honey
2) We would encourage the resident population to take work (like make our sandwiches) rather than stay on benefits because benefits dont make it viable to work

[Zeuhl]

/There is a difference between immigrants and refugees, who have gone through the proper procedures, and illegal refugees./

Not really aog

Refugees are almost always outside the law at least initially; they are fleeing their home country and therefore usually arrive in another without going through proper travel or immigration procedures.

So until processed they can have no legal status to be there.

[Gromit]

// Better for all EU borders to be closed, in admittance that the EU open border policy was a complete failure. //

It has been a great success for most EU citizens. I an guessing you haven't travelled within Europe much (or at all) in the last 10 years.

[New Judge]

"Internal EU borders have been removed, so money saved on those should be used on shoring up the external borders. "

Not in the UK they haven't. The UK and Ireland are not party to the crazy (avoided "ridiculous" this time due to previous criticisms) Schengen Agreement. Because the rest of the EU was dopey enough to abolish its internal borders that's no reason why the UK should help rescue them from their folly or to pay for the consequences. There were adequate warnings before the agreement was signed that it would lead to the sort of problems we are seeing now. Those warnings were brushed aside with the usual accusations of xenophobia. It is disingenuous to rope the UK into the solution to that problem and Mr Pantsdown's attack on the Government is unjustified.

The way for Italy, in particular, to deal with this problem (if they feel the need to pluck migrants from the drink) is to return their vessels and them back to the coast (or as near to the coast as practical if landing is impossible) of North Africa with no delay. If the occupants happen to arrive back a few miles along the coast from where they embarked that's too bad.

Illegal immigrants are criminals (at least they are in the UK). It is illegal to enter the UK without leave to do so and arriving in a clandestine manner as many of those from France do most certainly fits the bill. This is worth remembering but alas the people tasked with protecting our borders seldom enforce this law.

A borderless Europe most certainly is advantageous to those entitled to be in Europe. Unfortunately ii is equally or even more advantageous to those who are not. The problems caused by it are becoming increasingly severe and are now outweighing the advantages. It is time the Schengen Agreement was reviewed and revised.