Ched Evans, Is He A Victim Here, Too?

[sandyRoe]

I wouldn't have thought so, but others seem to think differently.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-30093565

[Zeuhl]

/That was the player that on the Thursday had sufffered a "reaction"/

You can get ointment for that now

[ummmm]

Baz....I don't think the girl in question even knew who he was.

I'd never heard of him and I live with 3 football fans.

[2sp_]

"because the term 'rape' implies (for most people i believe) some form of physical force or violence"

Then we need to educate society better. The act of Rape itself (non-consensual sex) is horrific, even without violence. By only calling violent cases rape, and changing non-violent cases to sexual assault (or the like) is down playing the seriousness of rape.

[Zeuhl]

/Then we need to educate society better./

In many things

but based on this debate, we also need terminology that is more precise

if i am told that an acquaintance is a 'convicted rapist' i would like to know whether they have had sex with someone who was unconscious (disgusting, reprehensible and illegal)

or whether they kept someone at knife point for several hours of sexual abuse (all the above times ten thousand)

I don't think any qualifiers of GBH etc will necessarily be reliably attached

[Svejk]

Statutory rape does exist in British law. If you must try and take the mick out of people, zeuhl, you'd be well advised to get your facts straight.

[ummmm]

Svejk...

No it doesn't.

[2sp_]

"if i am told that an acquaintance is a 'convicted rapist' i would like to know whether they have had sex with someone who was unconscious (disgusting, reprehensible and illegal) "

You could always ask for clarification at the time.

[bazwillrun]

ummm
likewise never heard of him

sheffield U are now a third tier side so not exactly big time anymore, wasnt that long ago they were Prem side, not that they were Prem quality...

to some of these girls it doesnt matter, as long as hes sort of famous thats all they care about in the bragging rights.

like i said the girl in the case I wrote about didnt even know he was an England player, she couldnt care less, as long as he was a "famous"

Its a bit like the girls thowing themselves at the likes of Dave Lee Travis et al, "celebs" will always attract people who are more than up for it !!

and sometimes when the person doesnt want to know them afterwards...well we know what can happen , dont we....

[gness]

Zeuhl....I hope you've read my post at 15.01...

I wasn't held at knifepoint.....I didn't say no.....I didn't speak in fact....I was conscious......I was unable to prevent what happened.....

Your opinion of my abuser?

Was he a rapist?

[Zeuhl]

Wrong again svejk

//Rape in English Law

The offence is created by section 1 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003:
“ 1-(1) A person (A) commits an offence if—

(a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
(b) B does not consent to the penetration, and
(c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.//

Are you getting confused with this?

//Rape of a child under 13

This is a statutory offence created by section 5 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003.
“ (1) A person commits an offence if—

(a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person with his penis, and

(b) the other person is under 13. //

[Zeuhl]

/You could always ask for clarification at the time./

yeah right LOL

"so what kind of rapist is he?"

That need for clarification rather highlights my point

as in the analogy at 14.32, if someone is described as a 'convicted bank robber' we immediately have some certainty of what they have done

we are unlikely to think they walked into a wide open bank when all the staff were boozed up and passed out and helped themselves to a few quid from the drawer.

[Svejk]

///This is a statutory offence ///
Taken from your post. I am confused.

[2sp_]

I can't even begin to tell you how terrified I am for our society when there are still those that cannot understand that you don't need to use violence or the threat of violence for non-consensual sex to be rape.

[Zeuhl]

/Taken from your post. I am confused./

I know you are svejk....

The offence is 'sex with a child under 13' not 'Statutory Rape'

Lots of offences are 'statutory'

And in any case, it wouldn't apply to your hypothetical 15 year old so don't try and weasel out of your obvious assumption that sex with someone under the age of consent was 'Rape' in England - as it is in some US states

[Zeuhl]

/I can't even begin to tell you how terrified I am for our society when there are still those that cannot understand that you don't need to use violence or the threat of violence for non-consensual sex to be rape./

I think you are missing the point 2sp

which is a pity

[2sp_]

I'm really not missing the point...

What Evans did = Rape (one crime)
What that particular brother and sister did = Rape + serious assault (two crimes)

[Zeuhl]

/Common sense says the Evans' offence isn't as awful./

It also says that the other offence was worse

If people don't want to deal more severely with some perpetrators and just lump together all 'rapists' then i think that's wrong