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Is There No End To Our Generosity?
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aog
Are you really that ignorant that you don't know what trauma injury is. It is nothing whatsoever to do with mental health issues i.e PTSS or diseases etc.
Trauma injuries are the like of multiple amputation as a result of setting off an IED.Two,three or all limbs blown off plus internal organ shock injuries and haemorrhaging. Scaffolders falling off high buildings. Cyclists run over by HGV's.Serious crush injuries. Most casualties would have a snowball's chance in hell of surviving these injuries if it wasn't for our RAMC surgeons. They benefit all with their skills both military and civilian.
I used to think you were unfairly picked on by some of the lefties on this site,but,with that display of ignorance with regard to trauma injuries they may just have a point!!! It is not just about amputating limbs and removing bullets.It is about neurosurgery and reducing death by shock through massive blood loss etc in conditions where you wouldn't want to live for a three month tour never mind getting viscerated there as well.
Are you really that ignorant that you don't know what trauma injury is. It is nothing whatsoever to do with mental health issues i.e PTSS or diseases etc.
Trauma injuries are the like of multiple amputation as a result of setting off an IED.Two,three or all limbs blown off plus internal organ shock injuries and haemorrhaging. Scaffolders falling off high buildings. Cyclists run over by HGV's.Serious crush injuries. Most casualties would have a snowball's chance in hell of surviving these injuries if it wasn't for our RAMC surgeons. They benefit all with their skills both military and civilian.
I used to think you were unfairly picked on by some of the lefties on this site,but,with that display of ignorance with regard to trauma injuries they may just have a point!!! It is not just about amputating limbs and removing bullets.It is about neurosurgery and reducing death by shock through massive blood loss etc in conditions where you wouldn't want to live for a three month tour never mind getting viscerated there as well.
We are not talking about mental issues or even curing diseases, any surgeon knows how to amputate or remove a bullet.
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Do they? I don't know of any surgeon where I work who has ever dealt with a gunshot wound or removed a round from the arm/leg/chest of a patient.
Those that have such skills have as retro righlty said had them honed as a result of working at Bastion etc.
For those who have removed them, how did they first do so? I'll tell you.
It would have been under the supervision and guidance of a senior colleague skilled in such procedures, just how every other surgeon learns to carry out a particular procedure. After that, they perform them as and when required and develop their skills and techniques, just as many Registrars/Senior House Officers will as a result of treating these Ukranian soldiers. They'll learn new techniques about skin grafting, stump shaping and saving vital tissue etc.
Subsequently, at some time in the future those skills and treatments will be utilised on our own troops, who hopefully will have better outcomes and prognoses as a result.
The one benefit from each conflict we are involved in is that medicine advances each time, regrettable though it is:
http://
From link:
During the Korean War, the helicopter was routinely used to evacuate casualties from the battlefield to near by mobile army surgical hospitals (MASH), where new lifesaving surgical techniques, such as arterial repair, saved many lives. These advances continued in military medicine during the Vietnam War with more sophisticated surgery and additional antibiotics and equipment. These developments contributed to just 2.5 percent of casualties dying from wounds received, the lowest number ever. During the Gulf War of 1990–1991, disease and nonbattle injury rates were markedly lower than expected.
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Do they? I don't know of any surgeon where I work who has ever dealt with a gunshot wound or removed a round from the arm/leg/chest of a patient.
Those that have such skills have as retro righlty said had them honed as a result of working at Bastion etc.
For those who have removed them, how did they first do so? I'll tell you.
It would have been under the supervision and guidance of a senior colleague skilled in such procedures, just how every other surgeon learns to carry out a particular procedure. After that, they perform them as and when required and develop their skills and techniques, just as many Registrars/Senior House Officers will as a result of treating these Ukranian soldiers. They'll learn new techniques about skin grafting, stump shaping and saving vital tissue etc.
Subsequently, at some time in the future those skills and treatments will be utilised on our own troops, who hopefully will have better outcomes and prognoses as a result.
The one benefit from each conflict we are involved in is that medicine advances each time, regrettable though it is:
http://
From link:
During the Korean War, the helicopter was routinely used to evacuate casualties from the battlefield to near by mobile army surgical hospitals (MASH), where new lifesaving surgical techniques, such as arterial repair, saved many lives. These advances continued in military medicine during the Vietnam War with more sophisticated surgery and additional antibiotics and equipment. These developments contributed to just 2.5 percent of casualties dying from wounds received, the lowest number ever. During the Gulf War of 1990–1991, disease and nonbattle injury rates were markedly lower than expected.
There are genuine questions that need to be answered.
Even if you consider it ethical to fly badly injured people in from around the world to hone our surgeon's skills (or keep their eye in) this, patently, isn't the case here. The second man is coming next month and then they'll assess the other 3.
Are these medical decisions or political ones?
I hope I don't come across as callous, I'm sure these men will be grateful for this 'reconstructive' surgery and I wish them well. What I'm asking is, is this happening at the behest of the doctors or is it being forced on them by the government as part of some anti-Russian 'game-playing'.
Even if you consider it ethical to fly badly injured people in from around the world to hone our surgeon's skills (or keep their eye in) this, patently, isn't the case here. The second man is coming next month and then they'll assess the other 3.
Are these medical decisions or political ones?
I hope I don't come across as callous, I'm sure these men will be grateful for this 'reconstructive' surgery and I wish them well. What I'm asking is, is this happening at the behest of the doctors or is it being forced on them by the government as part of some anti-Russian 'game-playing'.
I'd like to think it's just Doctors and Surgeons in the UK offering to help injured soldiers from a conflict not too far away.
As I've already pointed out, everyone concerned will get a benefit out of it.
It's not much different to when there is a disaster or such somewhere in the world and UK medical personnnel go out there and 'do their bit' for a couple of weeks, as happens from time to time with colleagues of mine.
As I've already pointed out, everyone concerned will get a benefit out of it.
It's not much different to when there is a disaster or such somewhere in the world and UK medical personnnel go out there and 'do their bit' for a couple of weeks, as happens from time to time with colleagues of mine.
Svejk
I can't honestly answer that one I will admit. As Ukraine is a country that aspires to become a member of the EU, (and that is what caused their megga problems with Russia in the first place and the whole world of pain that has befallen them) I would hope that as long as we are in the EU we may regard Ukraine as our allies and a member of NATO as well. I wouldn't be happy if Russian wounded soldiers were brought to this country for treatment as a result of their invasion as I regard it as a terrorist action which is not included in the terms of the Geneva Convention.I hope it is for more humanitarian and medical reasons that these Ukranian soldiers are brought to the UK rather than political.
YMFG stated earlier that there is no comparison between an innocent child and a soldier who has a choice. I don't know if he is old enough to remember National Service or conscription but our National Servicemen had NO choice if they were sent to Korea or Suez and it wasn't even for the protection or good of their homeland.I would imagine that most Eastern bloc soldiers are National Serviceman and don't have a choice if they wish to protect their country or not.
I can't honestly answer that one I will admit. As Ukraine is a country that aspires to become a member of the EU, (and that is what caused their megga problems with Russia in the first place and the whole world of pain that has befallen them) I would hope that as long as we are in the EU we may regard Ukraine as our allies and a member of NATO as well. I wouldn't be happy if Russian wounded soldiers were brought to this country for treatment as a result of their invasion as I regard it as a terrorist action which is not included in the terms of the Geneva Convention.I hope it is for more humanitarian and medical reasons that these Ukranian soldiers are brought to the UK rather than political.
YMFG stated earlier that there is no comparison between an innocent child and a soldier who has a choice. I don't know if he is old enough to remember National Service or conscription but our National Servicemen had NO choice if they were sent to Korea or Suez and it wasn't even for the protection or good of their homeland.I would imagine that most Eastern bloc soldiers are National Serviceman and don't have a choice if they wish to protect their country or not.
Chill,
That was precisely the young lady I was referring to on my 1227 post regarding Pakistani children who are victims of war prior to the latest Pakistani children mowed down in their school. It seemed to fall on death ears apart from YMFB's comment that I couldn't compare innocent children who had no choice to be maimed and injured in a conflict whereas he seems to think a soldier has a choice. That is why I wrote on my last post about conscripted soldiers who also have no choice in which conflict they are sent to even if they do not wish to be in their country's armed forces.
That was precisely the young lady I was referring to on my 1227 post regarding Pakistani children who are victims of war prior to the latest Pakistani children mowed down in their school. It seemed to fall on death ears apart from YMFB's comment that I couldn't compare innocent children who had no choice to be maimed and injured in a conflict whereas he seems to think a soldier has a choice. That is why I wrote on my last post about conscripted soldiers who also have no choice in which conflict they are sent to even if they do not wish to be in their country's armed forces.
retrocop
Don't you call me ignorant, you ignorant person, I was talking solely about surgery, not any side effects of such surgery.
But I admit I was ignorant of the fact that our Royal Army Medical Corps surgeons, are there to operate on Scaffolders who happen to fall off high buildings, along with cyclists who get run over by HVGs, pity for those who only get run over by 4x4s etc.
And I notice that your humanity towards these unfortunates only extends to those that we are in political agreement with?
Don't you call me ignorant, you ignorant person, I was talking solely about surgery, not any side effects of such surgery.
But I admit I was ignorant of the fact that our Royal Army Medical Corps surgeons, are there to operate on Scaffolders who happen to fall off high buildings, along with cyclists who get run over by HVGs, pity for those who only get run over by 4x4s etc.
And I notice that your humanity towards these unfortunates only extends to those that we are in political agreement with?
retrocop if you have a forces background you will know that Cmdr Rick Jolly treated both injured Brits and Argentineans in his falklands field hospital - and the Argies later gave him a gong !
nothing new about that
In 1940 my father had English injured on the left side pews and German injured on the right side, as er the village Schorrisse was over run by Germans
nothing new about that
In 1940 my father had English injured on the left side pews and German injured on the right side, as er the village Schorrisse was over run by Germans
Chilldo - just to update you...
The MASH model was abandoned in Vietnam because - when the freedom loving Viets over ran MASHes they shot all the medical personnel.
USAMC had the highest mortality and fewest fingers ( viets used to shoot at them preferentially)
and the buddy system and cas-evacking came into being
( I wont say I know - I was there [but almost].... I was near people that were there)
The MASH model was abandoned in Vietnam because - when the freedom loving Viets over ran MASHes they shot all the medical personnel.
USAMC had the highest mortality and fewest fingers ( viets used to shoot at them preferentially)
and the buddy system and cas-evacking came into being
( I wont say I know - I was there [but almost].... I was near people that were there)
retrocop
Don't you call me ignorant, you ignorant person, I was talking solely about surgery, not any side effects of such surgery.
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So you're allowed to call him ignorant but he can't do the same of you? Sounds fair!
And I'm sure t wasn't meant in the manner in which you've taken it but you do appear to be ignorant of(or are just simply refusing to acknowledge) the facts and reasons that are being presented to you.
Why don't you digest what's provided in the answers instead of taking umbrage at what you consider to be a sleight against you, when it actually isn't?
Don't you call me ignorant, you ignorant person, I was talking solely about surgery, not any side effects of such surgery.
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So you're allowed to call him ignorant but he can't do the same of you? Sounds fair!
And I'm sure t wasn't meant in the manner in which you've taken it but you do appear to be ignorant of(or are just simply refusing to acknowledge) the facts and reasons that are being presented to you.
Why don't you digest what's provided in the answers instead of taking umbrage at what you consider to be a sleight against you, when it actually isn't?
PP
As did Captain Lippy Lipman (RAMC) treat both British, German and civilian casualties at Arnhem. All wars where the Geneva convention applied but not always closely complied with. The invasion of Ukraine is not a war IMO it is more a terrorist insurgency by a bullying bear. Putin has even had the nerve to say his troops and tanks have never crossed the border into the Ukraine.In that case it must of been terrorists looking like Russian military personnel. I do not believe the terms of the Geneva Convention cover terrorism so the UK is under no obligation to medically treat a belligerent nation's terrorists.
As did Captain Lippy Lipman (RAMC) treat both British, German and civilian casualties at Arnhem. All wars where the Geneva convention applied but not always closely complied with. The invasion of Ukraine is not a war IMO it is more a terrorist insurgency by a bullying bear. Putin has even had the nerve to say his troops and tanks have never crossed the border into the Ukraine.In that case it must of been terrorists looking like Russian military personnel. I do not believe the terms of the Geneva Convention cover terrorism so the UK is under no obligation to medically treat a belligerent nation's terrorists.
