Are The Dutch Wrong To Have A Traditional Festive Character Called Black Pete?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2836013/Police-arrest-60-protesters-Dutch-Christmas-festival-disturbances-traditional-Black-Pete-clowns-blacked-faces.html

Would it be more acceptable for them to recruit only black people to play his part?

Or why don't the black population join in the fun and whiten their faces? I am sure the whites wouldn't take offence.

[sp1814]

BlackadderV

I'm simply answering questions put forward.

I didn't raise the question. AOG did. I answered him, and then some other points. I am very far from being 'het up'.

If you think this story does not concern us, why not tell that to AOG?

[boxtops]

Gee, if Russell Brand is spouting about it, it must be serious :-( The man's a self-opinionated nobody.

[sp1814]

divebuddy

No it doesn't.

What do you mean by 'traditional Dutch'?

If someone is born in Holland, surely they are Dutch?

I am born in Great Britain...and I am British. The people in the photo may very well be Dutch, giving them every reason to protest about something they do not like in their own country.

[Zacs-Master]

Divebuddy, if we follow your logic we end up in Chaos. I take it you agree with white people dressing up as black people for the amusement of others?

[Zacs-Master]

Divebuddy, I see your not trying to defend your 'statement'
//Most of the protesters don't look much like traditional Dutch people to me. Perhaps they have chosen the wrong country to live in. There must be an airport/railway station nearby where they could buy a ticket to somewhere they feel more at home.//

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// Would it be more acceptable to recruit only black actors to portray him? ///

Who said anything about actors, these are just ordinary folk, dressing up as a fictional character.

/// Yes, I believe so...after reading the Wikipedia article on the character, it would be difficult to see how it could be portrayed in anything but a negative light. ///

Nothing negative about them, and don't put much trust in Wikipedia articles they can be self edited you know.

/// Why don't the black population join in the fun by 'whiting up'? That would be senseless as they wouldn't be dressing as a character. ///

That's not a problem, there is nothing stopping them from inventing one, perhaps they could give it the first airing at the next Notting Hill Carnival?

[Zacs-Master]

No examples of 'downloaded' traditions which offend 'us' then, AOG?

[anotheoldgit]

BlackadderV

/// Can anyone suggest an alternative method of portraying a chimney sweep that is easily recognisable? ///

Ah I am beginning to realise why we all went smokeless back in the 50s and 60s, and most of the coal mines were closed down, it had nothing to do with the clean air act or Wilson and Thatcher, it was because some were taking offence at all those chimney sweeps and coal miners walking around with black faces.

[Zacs-Master]

I see we've descended into the farcical again. Night night everybody, night night.

[anotheoldgit]

Zacs-Master

/// The image on one of the protesters T-shirts obviously has Afro-Caribbean features, very similar to our Golly's. ///

That is interesting coming from someone who regularly sets himself up as someone intelligent,

Afro-Caribbean eh, and are Gollies also Afro-Caribbean? don't you mean just African or to be more correct Negroid, if that hasn't been classed offensive also?

Incidentally are not the images on those t-shirts more offensive than Black Pete?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/11/15/1416074005471_wps_5_epa04491094_Participants_.jpg

[anotheoldgit]

divebuddy

/// Suppose a load of Muslims wanted to protest violently against Xmas because of it's christian overtones; do we stop celebrating xmas. We do if we follow your logic. ///

That has already started, perhaps not yet violent, but certain firms etc are careful that they don't offend Muslims over the Christmas period.

[Zacs-Master]

//That is interesting coming from someone who regularly sets himself up as someone intelligent//

I've never 'set myself up' as intelligent. Maybe it's just your questions and responses which make me appear so, by comparison?

No examples of these offesnsive 'downloaded' traditions still, eh?

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// Morris dancers are not portraying black people. ///

You could have fooled me, why else would this school ban them?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/8123664.stm

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45984000/jpg/_45984696_morrismen2.jpg

[-Talbot-]

White people blacking up and black people whiting up doesn't bother me.

http://www.culture24.org.uk/asset_arena/5/80/06/360085/v0_master.jpg

[naomi24]

Can someone please tell me what is wrong with portraying black people? I’ve seen several opera singers made up to look like Japanese people, several made up to look like Egyptians, actors made up to look like Indians, etc, etc., but when it comes to making up to look like black people it’s a no go area. As I said on another thread it’s almost as though black people are ashamed to be black - or at least the politically correct take it upon themselves to be ashamed on their behalf! For gawd’s sake, some people are black, some are brown, some are white, some are pink, and some are somewhere in between. Get over it!

[Old_Geezer]

Precisely why outrage is unjustifiable. ( And why appeasement is not a sensible option to avoid anticipated violence, something Sony failed to understand only recently.)

[sp1814]

naomi24

White people 'blacking up' is objectionable to many people. It can be seen as offensive, because it has associations to offensive stereotypes.

People who are not offended have every right not to see negative connotations, but they should understand that others do.

There are things that I don't find offensive, but what I do, is I try to put myself in the shoes of others and understand their point of view.

[sp1814]

divebuddy

Do you think that the protestors in Holland are immigrants?

Why?

If you saw me protesting in London, would you assume I am an immigrant?

Why do think this?