Are The Dutch Wrong To Have A Traditional Festive Character Called Black Pete?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2836013/Police-arrest-60-protesters-Dutch-Christmas-festival-disturbances-traditional-Black-Pete-clowns-blacked-faces.html

Would it be more acceptable for them to recruit only black people to play his part?

Or why don't the black population join in the fun and whiten their faces? I am sure the whites wouldn't take offence.

[BlackadderV]

//Indians will sound like Michael Bentine from 'It Ain't Half Hot Mum'.//

Don't think he ever appeared in that.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Goodness gracious me!

[BlackadderV]

You're probably thinking of Michael Bates.

[sp1814]

By the way naomi24 - thank you for the tip on how to deal with racism. I am sure you mean well, but I have a very well paid job with a fantastic company, good friends and a perfect home life. I think I've dealt with racism in the past very well...to the extent that I don't really need advice on it any more.

However, I understand your post was meant with the best intentions.

[vetuste_ennemi]

No offence to be taken here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XEPUmV7iy0

[sp1814]

BlackadderV

Was it??

I always thought it was Bentine.

I bow to your superior memory.

[BlackadderV]

@ sp1814


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Ain%27t_Half_Hot_Mum

[Orderlimit]

Orderlimit

So do you think homophobia is made up?

I know it isn't made up.

You think that gay people are never physically or verbally abused?

I know they are.

How have you reached this conclusion?

I didn't, you did - again :)

[vetuste_ennemi]

Not Master, then, Blackadder?

[sp1814]

Orderlimit

I'm sorry - I misread your earlier post. I thought you were saying that those who are genuinely outraged were making things up.

[BlackadderV]

Not Master, then, Blackadder?

Took me a moment or two to work that one out. Naughty!

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// AOG - do you remember a while ago telling me that because I am not English, I cannot be expected to understand how an Englishman feels about a specific subject. Do you remember that? I do, because I am pretty sure I called you a racist idiot at then time. ///

Yes that would be the usual response if a white person complains, this is the whole point black people are allowed to be offended, in fact certain measures are taken to prevent them from being so, but is this privilege extended towards white people? the answer is no.

/// naomi24 has intimated that it makes black people seem ashamed to be black. It's not that, it's just that when white people black up, it's to make black people look like fools. ///

That is all in your mind, were the Black & White Minstrels or the character out of Verdi's Otello made to look like fools?

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// However in 2014, I don't know of any educated non-racist who uses that term. And I doubt whether this has anything to do with 'PC'. ///

/// It's probably more to do with good manners. ///

That is interesting taking into account that in this present age there has been a swift decline in manners, take for example certain un-polite remarks made by some ABers on this site

[sp1814]

AOG

Your perception of a fool is different to mine.

[Peter Pedant]

.

Schwarze Piet - santa's little helper

The Dutch had an episode of heart searching over this- having had a colonial past - and tha main thing was Scwarze Piet was a really nice guy !


and yes AOG you should get out more
there is a Nigerian soap where the white man is an African whited out.

if you can think of it, it ususally has ben done somewhere

[Peter Pedant]

// take for example certain un-polite remarks //

sorry AOG I recollect you posting "why does the ++++ wear a mask"
in one of your literate discussion on the hijab

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// I think that part of it is down to the cartoon depiction that white people default to when portraying those of different races.

The black man will have big rubber lips, wide eyes and an Afro.

South East Asians will have buck teeth and one of those paddy field hats.

Indians will sound like Michael Bentine from 'It Ain't Half Hot Mum'.///

And what would be your image of a typical white Englishman be?

Mainly they would be stereotyped as a bowler hat, rolled umbrella, brief case carrying individual, complete with a monocle and speaking in a posh accent complete with a lisp.

This is not being offensive it is being stereotyped and should not cause offence, doesn't Chris Eubank copy this image and he is black?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yH5HmA4DpzQ/T7mIZ6VVmpI/AAAAAAAAAh4/9SWfooh1LXo/s1600/ChrisEubank.jpg

Get any child regardless of race to draw a black man, a Chinaman, or talk like a person from the sub-continent of India and I think you will find your accusation of what a white person portrays them like are very similar.

[jomifl]

Curiously racism works only one way. If you say that a particular ethnic group are witty, attractive, intelligent etc, then that is fine, say the opposite and you are a racist.

[sp1814]

jomifl

Exactly!

You've described racial stereotyping to a tee.

Anyone who thinks they can describe the character of a white person or a black person with a few adjectives is a fool.

[sp1814]

AOG

You wrote:

Get any child regardless of race to draw a black man, a Chinaman, or talk like a person from the sub-continent of India and I think you will find your accusation of what a white person portrays them like are very similar.

That's entirely possible, but children are not sophisticated, as evidenced by the number of drawings they produce where dad has eight fingers on one hand or the family dog is the same height as mum.

I would expect that as adults, we would understand that there are huge variations in people of differing races.