At Last Someone Daring To Instil A Little Common Sense In This 'date-Rape' Debate, And A Female At That.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2932382/A-politically-correct-DPP-rape-worrying-question-men-prove-consent-asks-SARAH-VINE.html

Now a man has to prove that he has gained consent for sexual intercourse to take place, so how will they do this? Record the consent on his mobile phone, but perhaps that would not stand as evidence in a court of law, well what about getting the other party to sign a declaration of willingness on a piece of paper?

[jim360]

"So in such cases where there are no witnesses and no other condemning evidence, it still all down to who can convince the jury the most, which in the majority of cases they will take the side of the female."

This is not borne out by the low conviction rate, though. I don't think that rate should be increased for its own sake, but if juries were indeed swayed by one side or the other with no regard for the evidence then it seems that they tend to side with the defendant a lot more often than the complainant.

Moreover if it were literally just a case of his word against hers then the case would almost certainly never reach court in the first place. The standards of evidence required to bring a case to court are lower than those for conviction, but broadly speaking at least two pieces of evidence are needed for all three of the points that define rape before a charge is brought. This also includes corroborating evidence -- it's not enough for a woman to claim that she didn't consent, but evidence of some distress about the incident is required, eg a witness verifying that she was upset; while it's also not enough for her to claim that sex happened: some forensic evidence, or even the alleged assailant's own confirmation that sex happened, is required.

The third point, lack of reasonable belief of consent, is more likely to be tested in court rather than before a charge is brought; the new guidelines appear to be basically aimed at changing this part. This might actually lead, paradoxically, to fewer cases reaching court, but those that do would have a higher-quality set of evidence making conviction more likely.

[anotheoldgit]

naomi24

/// And for the record, I don’t just claim to tell it as it is – I do tell it as it is. Hope that helps. ///

Well that makes a lot of sense doesn't it?

But please Naomi join us in the playground (as you often do), because it is so much fun, and there are plenty of us to play with.

[naomi24]

AOG, //Well that makes a lot of sense doesn't it? //

Yes, actually it does. I rest my case.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2933940/Harriet-Harman-calls-end-rape-blame-culture-Mail-columnist-suggested-drunken-women-weren-t-without-reproach-sexual-assault-cases.html

Well it seems to have got Mss Harman in a huff, who would have thought it?

[retrocop]

Like we can listen to what this naive stupid woman thinks or says? She is the one who naively jumped on to the NCCL train after P.I.E. affiliated itself with it and then had to admit to her stupid mistake (begrudgingly it seems). This woman expects to help in the governance of this country. Gawd help uis.

[Hypognosis]

@AOG

I hate to ruin a very serious and important thread, especially as I haven't read it all yet but, back on page 2 there was this, in your banter with AH

" but funny enough unlike apparently you, I never seem to dwell on the 'toned bodies' and 'long legs'. "

Not dwelling on a DM habit which is so conspicuous "X shows off her toned body", "bikini-clad Y". Does that signify embarassment about it? At least you have now acknowledged its presence.

We're only picking out the hypocrisy of moralising main features juxtaposed with celebrity ogling pap on the website. Keep scrolling diwn and see if you can ever reach the bottom of the page!

Meanwhile, back to the thread.

[andy-hughes]

The OP concerns the views of a Daily Mail journalist, and her opinion on the concept of rape, and has been debated by most, including me.

For some reason, it has been side tracked into a debate about how pompous my expression of my views is - or not.

For the record - if I appear to be condescending or pompous, then it is down to the vagiaries of written communication between people who do not know each other personally.

I am not a self-opinionated person, I do not look down on people, I am not pompous.

If I appear so, then that is down to my way of expressing myself, which I am not mindful to alter, and I would hope that people would look at my point, and dwell a little less on my way of expressing it.

I am always willing to disagree and argue with anyone, but the level of trolling I have received is starting to get a little out of hand - so I would ask that those concerned be a little more willing to stay on point, and a little less to upbraid me for my writing style, and personality defects which they erroneously confer on me based on what they think they are reading.

When I use a phrase like 'educating young people' - that is what I mean. I am sixty, I have a grand-daughter of nineteen, so 'young people' are exactly what they are - that is not detrimental, or pompous, simply a fact.

Hopefully people will think about bandying insults about - it is not something I do often, and have always apologised when I have strayed over the line, as AOG knows full well, we have crossed swords many times.

So, a new week, a new start, and please feel free to argue my point if you disagree, but hopefully refrain from being unpleasant about me as an individual, when I believe that your perception is wrong.

Thanks for the air-time AOG - sorry to borrow your thread.