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Racist Or Just Stating A Fact?
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THECORBYLOON
/// Other than the man's colour, why did the woman speak about slaves? ///
Perhaps it is because that many black people are always reverting back to the inhuman treatment that they their forefathers were forced to endure many years ago, and because of this built in anger it gives them a certain attitude that they are always the victim, so perhaps this white person was only making him aware of this?
Just playing 'Devil's advocate' you understand?
/// Other than the man's colour, why did the woman speak about slaves? ///
Perhaps it is because that many black people are always reverting back to the inhuman treatment that they their forefathers were forced to endure many years ago, and because of this built in anger it gives them a certain attitude that they are always the victim, so perhaps this white person was only making him aware of this?
Just playing 'Devil's advocate' you understand?
If you can't see that the "or" part of your statement necessarily implies that "just stating a fact" includes "and therefore not racist", then you misunderstand your own question. It is obvious that the way you have posed the question makes it a choice between racist (and therefore not just factual) or factual (and therefore not racist). The two are being posed as mutually exclusive.
THECORBYLOON
/// ANOTHEOLDGIT, why do you think that some folk will say it is racist? ///
That is the 'million dollar question' who knows?
The word is wheeled out on most such occasions that the true meaning is slowly becoming diluted.
There is more information on what was said in this report.
http://
*** “If you acted like a human being then I wouldn’t have a problem with that. You have a problem because you guys used to be slaves,” she
added. ***
Now to me suggesting that the black person was not a human being (although it cannot be classed as racist), is much more insulting than stating a fact that "you guys used to be slaves"
Although she could have been more correct in saying "some of your ancestors could probably have been slaves".
/// ANOTHEOLDGIT, why do you think that some folk will say it is racist? ///
That is the 'million dollar question' who knows?
The word is wheeled out on most such occasions that the true meaning is slowly becoming diluted.
There is more information on what was said in this report.
http://
*** “If you acted like a human being then I wouldn’t have a problem with that. You have a problem because you guys used to be slaves,” she
added. ***
Now to me suggesting that the black person was not a human being (although it cannot be classed as racist), is much more insulting than stating a fact that "you guys used to be slaves"
Although she could have been more correct in saying "some of your ancestors could probably have been slaves".
The poor girl needs a crash course in political correctness then she wouldn't have people screaming 'You can't say that, this is England' and 'You can't even speak English proper' at her.
I wonder where she's from. Must be a country where men still stand up for women. She'll have to learn that in multi-culti London you keep your eyes glued to the floor and say nothing to anyone.
I wonder where she's from. Must be a country where men still stand up for women. She'll have to learn that in multi-culti London you keep your eyes glued to the floor and say nothing to anyone.
Svejk - "I wonder where she's from. Must be a country where men still stand up for women. She'll have to learn that in multi-culti London you keep your eyes glued to the floor and say nothing to anyone."
No - she merely learns that if she engages someone in an argument, it's not wise to use their ethnicity to insult them.
That's not political correctness, it's just good manners.
No - she merely learns that if she engages someone in an argument, it's not wise to use their ethnicity to insult them.
That's not political correctness, it's just good manners.
It was your Rasta mate who was doing all the ranting and raving. She obviously couldn't understand why and in her own way suggested he had an enormous chip on his shoulder, which he did. I wouldn't have argued with him, I'd have told him to shut the 'flip' up, or else. But then he wouldn't chunter on to me, I doubt. And furthermore, he wouldn't be allowed to rant on at a defenceless young girl around here because everyone on the bus/train would tell him to shut the 'flip' up.
I'm surprised there's so little sympathy for a young foreign girl on this site. I wonder why?
I'm surprised there's so little sympathy for a young foreign girl on this site. I wonder why?
It was your Rasta mate who was doing all the ranting and raving. She obviously couldn't understand why and in her own way suggested he had an enormous chip on his shoulder, which he did. I wouldn't have argued with him, I'd have told him to shut the 'flip' up, or else. But then he wouldn't chunter on to me, I doubt. And furthermore, he wouldn't be allowed to rant on at a defenceless young girl around here because everyone on the bus/train would tell him to shut the 'flip' up.
I'm surprised there's so little sympathy for a young foreign girl on this site. I wonder why?
I'm surprised there's so little sympathy for a young foreign girl on this site. I wonder why?
AOG - "/// To say that he 'had a problem' because ' you people used to be slaves ///
That is not quite what was said.
This is what was reported as having been said.
*** 'you have a problem because you guys used to be slaves'. ***
/// inferring that his behaviour towards her is because he is black and she is white, ///
That is completely your inference, colour was never mentioned."
Come on AOG, if a black person is in the conversation, and slavery is mentioned, are you seriously trying to say that this is not about ethnic origins?
" No difference to two white people quarrelling and one saying to the other "you have a problem because you guys are unintelligent idiots".
There is a world of difference. If one white man is saying to another '... you guys ...' then he pointing out a difference between them, although in your example that is not clear.
In this situation, the difference is entirely clear - I am unsure why you appear to be arguing that it is not clear.
" Now that surely is more insulting than stating the fact that "you guys used to be slaves"
Somehow I doubt it. Slavery in this conversation refers clearly to a specific group, of which the insulted man is a member - idiocy is international, and covers all racial and cultural boundaries.
" ... but even so, it would have been more correct to say "Some of you guys". "
No, it would have ben more correct not to bring race into the conversation at all - which brings us back to your question - yes, the woman was being racist.
That is not quite what was said.
This is what was reported as having been said.
*** 'you have a problem because you guys used to be slaves'. ***
/// inferring that his behaviour towards her is because he is black and she is white, ///
That is completely your inference, colour was never mentioned."
Come on AOG, if a black person is in the conversation, and slavery is mentioned, are you seriously trying to say that this is not about ethnic origins?
" No difference to two white people quarrelling and one saying to the other "you have a problem because you guys are unintelligent idiots".
There is a world of difference. If one white man is saying to another '... you guys ...' then he pointing out a difference between them, although in your example that is not clear.
In this situation, the difference is entirely clear - I am unsure why you appear to be arguing that it is not clear.
" Now that surely is more insulting than stating the fact that "you guys used to be slaves"
Somehow I doubt it. Slavery in this conversation refers clearly to a specific group, of which the insulted man is a member - idiocy is international, and covers all racial and cultural boundaries.
" ... but even so, it would have been more correct to say "Some of you guys". "
No, it would have ben more correct not to bring race into the conversation at all - which brings us back to your question - yes, the woman was being racist.
Svejk - "It was your Rasta mate who was doing all the ranting and raving."
What makes you think he is a Rasta? The very brief shot of him passing the camera does not give any indication that he is a Rastafarian - is it 'cos he is black?
"And furthermore, he wouldn't be allowed to rant on at a defenceless young girl around here because everyone on the bus/train would tell him to shut the 'flip' up."
She doesn't appear remotely 'defenceless' to me - she is certainly giving as good as she gets in what is only an verbal exchange. the woman is clearly unfazed by the altercation, which she appears to have started, and she is happy to argue with other passengers who take exception to her remarks.
"I'm surprised there's so little sympathy for a young foreign girl on this site. I wonder why?"
It's simple - and it has nothing to do with her age, or her country of origin - it's rooted in her willingness to bandy racist observations around in public, and defending is not what she needs, or should have received.
What makes you think he is a Rasta? The very brief shot of him passing the camera does not give any indication that he is a Rastafarian - is it 'cos he is black?
"And furthermore, he wouldn't be allowed to rant on at a defenceless young girl around here because everyone on the bus/train would tell him to shut the 'flip' up."
She doesn't appear remotely 'defenceless' to me - she is certainly giving as good as she gets in what is only an verbal exchange. the woman is clearly unfazed by the altercation, which she appears to have started, and she is happy to argue with other passengers who take exception to her remarks.
"I'm surprised there's so little sympathy for a young foreign girl on this site. I wonder why?"
It's simple - and it has nothing to do with her age, or her country of origin - it's rooted in her willingness to bandy racist observations around in public, and defending is not what she needs, or should have received.
If we are playing the labelling game, allow me to chip in...
Here's my list of people on this thread who I reckon have shown themselves to be a bit evil by placing an unwarranted label on this woman, thereby inciting hatred against her:
slightly evil ABers:
ummmm
jim360
andy-hughes
boxtops
anneasquith
woofgang
sp1814
Have a nice day :)
Here's my list of people on this thread who I reckon have shown themselves to be a bit evil by placing an unwarranted label on this woman, thereby inciting hatred against her:
slightly evil ABers:
ummmm
jim360
andy-hughes
boxtops
anneasquith
woofgang
sp1814
Have a nice day :)
scowie - "Here's my list of people on this thread who I reckon have shown themselves to be a bit evil by placing an unwarranted label on this woman, thereby inciting hatred against her:"
A 'bit evil'? 'Inciting hatred against her'?
Get real!
This woman is no shrinking violet, and starting an argument with a stranger is a rather long way from a debate on a website which she will know nothing about.
A 'bit evil'? 'Inciting hatred against her'?
Get real!
This woman is no shrinking violet, and starting an argument with a stranger is a rather long way from a debate on a website which she will know nothing about.
That she is racist. She didn't show any prejudice against a black person in that video. She just unwisely tried to explain his behaviour with words that are considered taboo. She may have been politically incorrect, but not racist.
Btw, it should be inciting hatred that is against the law, not just using certain taboo words. Unfortunately the police seem to be applying the racial hatred laws as heavy-handedly as is possible, thereby inciting hatred themselves against those who use taboo words.
Btw, it should be inciting hatred that is against the law, not just using certain taboo words. Unfortunately the police seem to be applying the racial hatred laws as heavy-handedly as is possible, thereby inciting hatred themselves against those who use taboo words.
scowie - "She just unwisely tried to explain his behaviour with words that are considered taboo."
None of the words she used were 'tabboo', but the collection of them that she used to form sentences was offensive.
"She may have been politically incorrect, but not racist."
She used a reference to 'slaves' with reference to the man she was addressing, who is black - that is racist.
"Btw, it should be inciting hatred that is against the law, not just using certain taboo words. Unfortunately the police seem to be applying the racial hatred laws as heavy-handedly as is possible, thereby inciting hatred themselves against those who use taboo words."
Pardon? Using 'taboo' words is not an offense - using them in a racially derogatory way is.
Are you sure you know what the words 'racist' and 'taboo' mean, and the difference between them?
None of the words she used were 'tabboo', but the collection of them that she used to form sentences was offensive.
"She may have been politically incorrect, but not racist."
She used a reference to 'slaves' with reference to the man she was addressing, who is black - that is racist.
"Btw, it should be inciting hatred that is against the law, not just using certain taboo words. Unfortunately the police seem to be applying the racial hatred laws as heavy-handedly as is possible, thereby inciting hatred themselves against those who use taboo words."
Pardon? Using 'taboo' words is not an offense - using them in a racially derogatory way is.
Are you sure you know what the words 'racist' and 'taboo' mean, and the difference between them?
She wasn't being racially derogative. Sure, she was using words that the guy was likely to find offensive but offending a person shouldn't be against the law. We all have the right to personally offend someone and feel personally offended -- no one is breaking a law there.
I certainly know the difference between those words. You obviously have in your mind such a loose definition of what constitutes racism that you feel happy to bandy the word "racist" around very easily.
I certainly know the difference between those words. You obviously have in your mind such a loose definition of what constitutes racism that you feel happy to bandy the word "racist" around very easily.
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