A Bravado Racist Chant Maybe, But A Real Act Of Racism?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/feb/18/racist-chelsea-fans-push-black-man-paris-metro

Much has been said and reported about the Chelsea fans behaviour in France, mainly due to the Video obtained by the Guardian.

Well apart from the ridiculous chant from a football crowd, and many of us have become accustomed to these over the years, was it enough for calls for the perpetrators to answer to be banned and face the law?

As far as I could see from the video, the black man was walking along the platform, until he got to the open door of the carriage containing the football crowd.

Now what was said, perhaps we will never know, but instead of the black man trying to board the train was he actually trying to confront these football supporters in an aggressive way, and if he was isn't it obvious that they would try and push him away.

Yes we all know that the crowd were suppose to be shouting "We’re racist, we’re racist, and that’s the way we like it". (because the Guardian has told us that), but in the true football crowd tradition was this just to get back at their opponent.

I am in no way condoning an act of racism if that is what it was, but before you condemn me look at the video again.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - I know you love to play Devil's Advocate, but even you are on seriously thin ice with this one.

Why on earth would one man of any colour confront a gang of football supporters, aggressively or otherwise? And if he did, you appear to think that being pushed off the train was merely getting what he deserved for being so confrontational.

As someone who virtually makes a profession out of condemning the behaviour of those who are guests in our country, could you not apply a little consistency, and condemn the English visitors assaulting a French citizen?

[Gromit]

You are very daring to take 'An opposite view', AOG.

Especially in the face of the contradictary evidence.

It does however confirm that you clearly have no idea what is and isn't racism. Strange, as it is the underlining theme of most of your questions.

[andy-hughes]

What in earth is a 'bravado racist chant'?

I was not aware that racial abuse had specific subdivisions.

[alavahalf]

..... Angry Black Parisian office worker hurls abuse at a carriage full of white English day trippers ....

I suppose it's possible to see it that way.?

[ludwig]

It differs from the sheepish racist chant, which is done furtively under ones breath andy.

[andy-hughes]

alavahalf - "..... Angry Black Parisian office worker hurls abuse at a carriage full of white English day trippers ....

I suppose it's possible to see it that way.?"

Er ... no ... no it's not.

[Bazile]

andy - i think that alavahalf is being sarcastic .

[andy-hughes]

Bazile - "andy - i think that alavahalf is being sarcastic ."

I know - as was I - sometimes it's difficult to be clear in print. I figured, as he did - least said, most sarcastic.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

// in the true football crowd tradition //
Racism isn't a tradition in football. It crept in during the 1970s when football was hijacked by hooligan gangs. We do not want a return to that, which the Paris incident certainly was. ///

I did not say that Racism was a tradition in football, that was your effort at trying to twist my words, but what I did say was "ridiculous chants from football crowds".

// he actually trying to confront these football supporters in an aggressive way //
No he wasn't, he was a commuter trying to get home who was being prevented from boarding the train. Only you could try and blame the victim in this instance. ///

You cleverly missed out the my first two words "WAS HE".

How on earth from the evidence before you that he was in fact a commuter trying to get home? perhaps he was going to work, going to a bar etc etc there are scores of reasons why he was on the platform.

And can you be sure that that was the train he wanted to board, one could equally say that he is trying to enter the carriage so as to approach those arguing with him.

[Tilly2]

Well, if he was confronting a train full of football yobs, he has a lot of guts. Idon't think he was doing that though.

[andy-hughes]

Ludwig - "It differs from the sheepish racist chant, which is done furtively under ones breath andy."

Aaaah - thanks for that Ludwig!

[Gromit]

AOG,
I must have better hearing than you because I can clearly hear 'we're racist, we're racist' without the need for subtitles. I'm sure other ABers can hear it too

I cannot think of a reason why you want to excuse this behaviour, unless you yourself were singing along with the video. Media URL: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-0OFHPekUmE
Description:

[Gromit]

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0OFHPekUmE

[Booldawg]

I'm waiting for someone from the left leaning stable of politics to remind us that this is only a very small minority amongst Millions of peaceful non-racist Chelsea fans.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - "How on earth from the evidence before you that he was in fact a commuter trying to get home? perhaps he was going to work, going to a bar etc etc there are scores of reasons why he was on the platform."

Are you going to try and distract people from the fact that your Devil's Advocate position is untenable by simply switching to debate the minutia of the cirumstances?

It doesn't matter if he was a clown on the way to a fancy dress party - the fact is, he was racially abused and physically assaulted for trying to board a train.

"And can you be sure that that was the train he wanted to board, one could equally say that he is trying to enter the carriage so as to approach those arguing with him."

Come on AOG, there was obviously no 'argument', the situation is clear to everyone who has posted, and I am sure even to you, although you are continuing this 'what if this, and what if that' route of pointless debate.

You are in a hole - stop digging.

[alavahalf]

Cheers Baz ... Sorry Andy ..I was only changing the headline to show the way AOG thinks it may have been misunderstood in the first place.

[ludwig]

I wish you had your own newspaper AOG. Your spin on things would be hilarious. 'Black thug attacks white boy's fist with his face in unprovoked attack'. That kind of stuff.

[Bazile]

aog
//And can you be sure that that was the train he wanted to board, one could equally say that he is trying to enter the carriage so as to approach those arguing with him. //

Erm - the behaviour against him started after he tried to board the train

[anotheoldgit]

alavahalf

/// If you are going to confront a gang of football supporters ... I doubt very much if you would turn your back on them as seen in as second attempt to board the train. His body language is all wrong. ///

I have looked at it yet again and fail to see where he has turned his back, pushed to one side yes.

Notice also the different ways the clip has been edited, first this BBC clip shows an open carriage no sight of the black man, but there is a black woman in the doorway, no problem there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31530501

Then we see the Guardian one, Black man walks down the platform and stops at the one carrying the football crowd.

[Gromit]

From the New York Post (because this is sullying our name all over the world)

// With a racist song ringing in his ears, a black man trying to board a subway train in Paris stands back after twice being pushed away by a group of Chelsea soccer fans.
Sharply dressed in a long overcoat and with a bag hanging from his left shoulder — most likely on his way home from work — the man does not manage to get on the train. A black woman, preferring to move away from the mob, walks off moments later. //