Why Offer Apprenticeships Only To The Academic?

[naomi24]

//Labour would guarantee apprenticeships for every school leaver in England who "gets the grades" by 2020, Ed Miliband has said. The party's "guarantee" would only apply to young people who gain '"level 3 qualifications," which are equivalent to having two A Levels. //

If we write off kids who fail academically but, given the opportunity, would potentially excel at practical skills, we’re wasting a lot of talent. Another short-sighted plan from Ed & Co.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31483886

[Prudie]

This will do nothing to help the thousands who leave school without those qualifications, the very people who need help to keep them off the jobless benefit route. Apprenticeships, specifically those in the practical skills such as building and engineering, have always traditionally been aimed at the non-academic, those who would have left at 16. It's an aimless guarantee.

[naomi24]

Indeed. Typical of Labour's 'one size fits all' mentality.

[mikey4444]

Might it not act as an encouragement to those kids who normally leave school without even the basic educational achievements ?

When I left school in the late 60's, O levels and CSE's weren't really necessary, as there were plenty of jobs around. But its different today, especially for boys, as the sort of manual jobs that used to be found are not there any more.

In the course of my work, I come across people of my age and a little younger that have no qualifications whatsoever, and they are the ones most at risk from long-term unemployment. Something needs to be done to break that cycle of underachievement, and I would have thought that this has got to be worth trying.

[flump1]

Indeed Naomi, I would have thought it would benefit the less academic more so. My partner is non academic yet is a brilliant engineer, craftsman. I daresay this covers many people. Like you said we are wasting their talents.

[Hypognosis]

It seems to be a misapplication of the usual recruitment filtering process.

You would think the filter should, instead, be upside-down, that is you have to have fewer than 'n' GCSEs to be allowed on the program.

A-level candidates should be aiming for places in high-tech industries but many of those will set the bar at a tertiary level (HNC/HND or whatever the modern equivalent is or degree level and beyond).

[Prudie]

There is already enough motivation to those open to being motivated to get qualifications at school - let's face it, the masses are now apparently capable of getting degrees. There are however actually kids who are just not capable of getting A levels yet are quite capable of learning a trade and contributing to society instead of sucking off it. These are the people who should be looked after. This promise is just an attempt at vote winning, Ed clearly doesn't really care about the problems if he sees this as a solution.

[naomi24]

Mikey, //Might it not act as an encouragement to those kids who normally leave school without even the basic educational achievements ?//

How so? If a kid simply doesn’t have the ability – and many don’t - this is tantamount to branding him a failure and throwing him on the dust heap. Where is he going to go? Society will always need plumbers and carpenters and people with practical skills. Despite my education I couldn’t do what they do.

[Thecorn]

Engineers and builders and indeed all careers that warrant an apprenticeship have to be literate and numerate to a quite a high degree and to describe these apprenticeships as some sort of "manual" non academic vocation with no need for any school qualifications is an error

[robofluff]

plumbers and carpenters are both skills that come from apprenticeships

[Prudie]

I agree theCorn but there is a big difference between being literate and numerate and having 2 A level equivalents. I work in a large engineering environment where the majority got apprenticeships after leaving school with no higher than O,CSE, GCSE quals. Many have risen to senior management with excellent business brains. They couldn't have got A levels at the time though.

[EDDIE51]

There is a lot of 'learning' to be done on an apprenticeship , maths is essential for a start. Apprenticeships normally involve day release at a technical collage in conjunction with work. I did an 'apprenticeship' as a Laboratory technician.It took 5 years of working 4 days a week plus 1 full day and one evening ( 5pm to 10 pm) at collage. I then continued to study by day release for another 3 years to get a degree in Chemistry.
I got my degree in 1976 having earned money at work all the time rather than running up a student loan. In addition to the degree I had 9 years industrial experience. I was immediately offered a job in Zambia due to my qualifications and experience.
Someone with no school qualifications would not be able to handle the workload, you have to prove you have the ability to learn to university standards.

[naomi24]

Thecorn, //all careers that warrant an apprenticeship have to be literate and numerate//

Of course, but practical skills don’t require A-levels in literacy and numeracy.

robofluff, //plumbers and carpenters are both skills that come from apprenticeships//

Indeed – which is why apprenticeships should be offered to those with aptitude.

[Thecorn]

Then prudie you must agree that all political policy is a promissory attempt at vote winning except the the people in charge at the moment don't seem to bothered about not keeping promises they make in their manifestos

[Hypognosis]

"The policy would be paid for by private companies bidding for public sector contracts."

Public sector contracts. Hmmm, is that what the Americans call "pork barrel" Politics?

" who would be required to have two year apprenticeships, and by diverting money from in-house training to "proper apprenticeships"."

I think this may be the way to go. Motivate employers to take people off the dole queue *and* train them up by setting corporation tax at X% and then give discounts slightly larger than the costs of doing so. Provided the discount can be made dependance on the permanence of the new post (as opposed to the person), employers will think twice before embarking on a scheme as a dodge and only do ot when they're sure they will have a value-added employee, earnng their keep, a few years down the road.

[Gromit]

The Apprenticeship hourly rate is £2.73. It is slave Labour.

Instead of supporting this, Labour should be campaigning to abolish it. It is nothing short of exploitation.

[Hypognosis]

@Prudie

"Many have risen to senior management with excellent business brains. They couldn't have got A levels at the time though."

Fascinating. So when they tell an applicant "you're over-qualified, you'll be bored", what they really mean is "foo*in 'ell, this kid's going to be gunning for my job in five years, no way is he/she getting in"?




(Check leg-lengths)

[Zacs-Master]

That's not entirely correct Gromit. This rate is for apprentices aged 16 to 18 and those aged 19 or over who are in their first year. All other apprentices are entitled to the National Minimum Wage for their age.

[Hypognosis]

@Gromit

what the fun? You mean this is just a rehash of the YOP?

[Hypognosis]

@Zacs

why should we short-change the 16-18 year olds just because that's what happened in our day? (I mean the patronising scaling of pay on the basis of age).

Young people *want stuff*. They'll spend it straight away and the work they do will translate immediately into money going into the economy and taxes to pay down the national debt, which is what we really need to be doing.

[Zacs-Master]

I was merely pointing out the facts. I have no opinion as to its acceptability.