What Is Wrong With Promoting British Values?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-32120583
Why are the unions/left so anti British?

[New Judge]

It seems that some people believe that Great Britain has a guilty past (the Empire, slavery, anything else that takes their fancy) and that guilt must now be assuaged.

[jno]

teachers should teach reading, writing and arithmetic. It is not their job to promote any values at all. Hire advertising people if you want to do that.

[bazwillrun]

"It is not their job to promote any values at all"

oh dear... to be expected from you though and your numerous anti british posts.

of course they should be teaching and promoting british values.
god knows how many of their pupils dont even speak english as a first language and parents who have no intention of adopting our cultures and ways.

only a total idiot would say otherwise, if their parents arent going to then teachers must and should

[jim360]

Speaking as an anti-British Union-bashing immoral foreign-loving do-gooder ***...

What are British values, then?

[Hypognosis]

@Bazwillrun

No schoolteacher taught me any British values at all. I think I got those from watching Ealing comedies.

[Hypognosis]

Oh and there was this:-

"English as tuppence. Changing yet changeless as canal water. Nestling in green nowhere. Armoured and effete; bold flag-bearer, lotus-fed Miss Havishambling opsimath and eremite: feudal, still reactionary, Rawlinson End."
(V. Stanshall)

[askyourgran]

Yes. Children should be taught British values, this is the country that they are supposed to be living and working in the future. They should be taught all there is to know about it's history and it's government, we need to foster pride in Britains achievements all of which will not be picked up at home, especially those children who need to master our language to begin with.

[ludwig]

jno // teachers should teach reading, writing and arithmetic. It is not their job to promote any values at all. Hire advertising people if you want to do that. //

I'll keep this one for next time you're defending them when they're being criticised for promoting something you happen to approve of.

[Huderon]

As a child of immigrant parents who happens to be married to a child of immigrant parents, I have no idea what British values are. There aren't any definitions, no manual to tell me what they are, so I just get on with living my life without worrying about them.

I suspect that if you asked enough people you would come up with some common themes, but those would be summed up in rather vague language, which wouldn't help matters much.

Perhaps fair play ? In which case why have we had laws relating to weights and measures for the last 1000 or so years and why would we need a sale of goods act (originally introduced in 1893) ? That's just not cricket, but then most things aren't.

Tolerance ? Yes, we see plenty of that around, don't we ?

The very British stiff upper lip ? Still found in many, but not all, older people, but appears to be unknown or disregarded by younger generations.

Any other suggestions ?

[Hypognosis]

@askyourGran

Mr Bevan, from the article: "I am not sure the government should ever be in the business of dictating values that should be taught in schools"

Yes, teaching 'values' to pliant, impressionable children is what all dictators do. There's film of the Nazis doing it; Stalin, Mao, North Korea, North Vietnam and other regimes of that ilk do it (trickier to catch them at it, on camera), Pol Pot took a short cut and killed people who wore glasses, since you don't need education to be an agricultural labourer.

Strictly speaking, we only need to teach kids *how to learn*. Obviously they need one R to get information in, another R to get their ideas out, arithmetic to work put which of their ideas are profitable and perhaps another R - the ability to reason for themselves.

If our values have intrinsic merit, they will, by their own independent thought processes arrive back at our idea of what civilised life is like, no matter what forces attempt to perturb our way of life and no matter what course of events plays out, in future times.

[Hypognosis]

@Huderon

Yes, as the extract of the speech put it:

"In what way do fundamental British values differ,
for example, from French or Swedish ones?"

If behaving like a decent human being is universal, what have we got that is unique? Our quirky sense of humour? Our relentless sarcasm? Inventing sports and then failing to beat the rest of the world at them?

[jno]

you'll be wasting your time, ludwig. I've no problem if they do teach values, I'm just pointing out that it's not their job and the government has no right to demand that they do it.

Nor does TTT, who isn't usually quite so keen to impose state controls.

[Hypognosis]

In a recent BBC piece, they interviewed some school pupils with regard to voting intentions, after the age-16 voting in the Scottish referendum and I was surprised (possibly relieved) at how little they were aware of who the parties were or what they stood for. Relieved in the sense that they've not been subjected to teacher influence.

The demands of education leave little room for swotting up on political debate. Economics was certainly impenetrable jargon, when I was that age. My first ever vote was a naive choice that I regret blotting my record with. I hope theirs teaches them a lesson in much the same way.

[ludwig]

// I'm just pointing out that it's not their job and the government has no right to demand that they do it. //

'British values' sounds like some kind of indefinable party political nonsense, so they're probably right to be ignoring that instruction.

However, I do believe it's part of their job to be promoting decent standards of behaviour and discipline - respect for others, not being a bully, punctuality, good manners etc, so the employer does have the right to demand they do this, despite it not being part of the academic curriculum.

[venator]

Democracy
Free speech
Freedom of thought

All British, all foreign notions to Muslim and Eastern Europeans

[venator]

And furthermore, to come back to the OP, trade unions aren't particularly anti British - they'tr basically pro Trade Unionism, and anything else is secondary.

One gigantic vested interest, do we think?

[Gromit]

Schools should be used to educate children.

They should not be used to promote anything, whether it is Christianity, Islam, homosexuality or some bizarre right wing codswallop was British values.

British values is not something that can be taught in school anyway. It should be something that is everywhere in this country and should be assimilated naturally.

The problem is that everyone from the clergy, to politicians to celebrites display very few British values any more. If anyone should be reminded of British values it is expenses leeching MPs.

[jim360]

There's a certain irony if we're requiring teachers to teach freedom of thought, though...

[naomi24]

That could produce problems at home for children of immigrants. As venator says, freedom of speech and freedom of thought, along with democracy, are alien notions to some cultures.

[anotheoldgit]

Perhaps first the The Association of Teachers and Lecturers should be freed from their damaging left-wing ideology, that would be a start.

Someone on here mentioned the Nazis, well just like those Nazi teachers our children are being brainwashed by them.

Long, long ago when some of us were children, we did not have to be taught 'British Values', and it is a pity that the children of those who must have thought our values were great, great enough to 'up sticks' and come and join us, automatically knew from their parents how great our country and values are.