ChatterBank0 min ago
I Wish Tony Blair Would Keep Quiet On Eu Rather Hypocritical Stance
58 Answers
Tony Blair is set to complain about the prospect of an EU referendum he is rather hypocritical after he caused havoc in 2004 what do ab think
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youngmafbog //I'm not sure I would want his tonyness opening his trap in support of me if I was Millibean.//
Haha! Neither would I.
Mikey, //So its OK when the "herd" vote Tory but not when they vote Labour ? How does that work then ?//
No idea. You tell me. I don’t possess the herd mentality.
//Blair's record still stands.........//
Indeed it does. He took us to war on a scaremongering lie - and he’s still scaremongering.
OG, your post at 09:49 is astute. Tony Blair’s New Labour is a far cry from Old Labour.
Haha! Neither would I.
Mikey, //So its OK when the "herd" vote Tory but not when they vote Labour ? How does that work then ?//
No idea. You tell me. I don’t possess the herd mentality.
//Blair's record still stands.........//
Indeed it does. He took us to war on a scaremongering lie - and he’s still scaremongering.
OG, your post at 09:49 is astute. Tony Blair’s New Labour is a far cry from Old Labour.
A nice simplified view of the rise & fall of Tony Bliar -
Tony, the charismatic salesman and Mandy Mandelson, the duplicitous spin doctor, reinvented "New Labour", throwing out much of the old Labour values, lurching to the right, and occupying what had been Tory ground.
This was done to make Labour electable, and it worked. The Tories had no strong leader to make a comeback.
The old Labour faithful were kept quiet because they knew the Tony & Mandy team was their only chance of staying in government.
The Iraq war was Tony's nemesis (lovely word). He'd privately promised to support Bush in going to war. Bush had his troops sitting in the desert heat, dosed up with drugs to protect against germ warfare, and had to go into action in the next few days, or get his troops back home.
Tony went along with the situation and took us to war without justification.
He and his boys dreamed up the famous dossier, then and now an obvious pack of lies.
Tony saw the end coming, and dropped the truly awful Brown into the mess he'd left.
Tony, the charismatic salesman and Mandy Mandelson, the duplicitous spin doctor, reinvented "New Labour", throwing out much of the old Labour values, lurching to the right, and occupying what had been Tory ground.
This was done to make Labour electable, and it worked. The Tories had no strong leader to make a comeback.
The old Labour faithful were kept quiet because they knew the Tony & Mandy team was their only chance of staying in government.
The Iraq war was Tony's nemesis (lovely word). He'd privately promised to support Bush in going to war. Bush had his troops sitting in the desert heat, dosed up with drugs to protect against germ warfare, and had to go into action in the next few days, or get his troops back home.
Tony went along with the situation and took us to war without justification.
He and his boys dreamed up the famous dossier, then and now an obvious pack of lies.
Tony saw the end coming, and dropped the truly awful Brown into the mess he'd left.
// Tony, the charismatic salesman and Mandy Mandelson, the duplicitous spin doctor, reinvented "New Labour", throwing out much of the old Labour values, lurching to the right, and occupying what had been Tory ground. //
Labour had been creeping nearer and nearer to the middle ground with successive leaders since Foot. Kinnock and Smith both contributed to smoothing off Labour's rough socialist edges. Blair merely found the sweet point that wasn't too rightward for the Party, but appealed to voters
// This was done to make Labour electable, and it worked. The Tories had no strong leader to make a comeback. //
Correct. It is exactly what Cameron did in 2010. He moved the party less right and to the centre. Brown, a weak Prime Minister had nothing new to offer. But the difference was Cameron failed to get the Conservatives a majority.
// The old Labour faithful were kept quiet because they knew the Tony & Mandy team was their only chance of staying in government. //
Likewise Cameron. Not everyone was happy with the Conservatives move leftwards. Being nice to gays and ethnics was not the old Tory way. Tory grassroots either joined UKIP or put up with it because they had been out of power for 13 years, and this was their way back.
// The Iraq war was Tony's nemesis (lovely word). He'd privately promised to support Bush in going to war. Bush had his troops sitting in the desert heat, dosed up with drugs to protect against germ warfare, and had to go into action in the next few days, or get his troops back home. //
Cameron nearly fell into the same trap. Only Miliband orchestrated a Commons defeat and we were kept out of the awful Syrian conflict. Or history would mow be repeating itself.
// Tony went along with the situation and took us to war without justification.
He and his boys dreamed up the famous dossier, then and now an obvious pack of lies. //
That's pretty much accurate.
//Tony saw the end coming, and dropped the truly awful Brown into the mess he'd left. //
There had been a pact for many years that was publically known, that Blair would hand over to Brown. Most people expected it an election sooner. Some Prime Ministers are lucky and Blair was. He had weak Conservative Opposition leaders throughout his reign, and he was lucky to move before the house of cards fell with the financial crash.
Labour had been creeping nearer and nearer to the middle ground with successive leaders since Foot. Kinnock and Smith both contributed to smoothing off Labour's rough socialist edges. Blair merely found the sweet point that wasn't too rightward for the Party, but appealed to voters
// This was done to make Labour electable, and it worked. The Tories had no strong leader to make a comeback. //
Correct. It is exactly what Cameron did in 2010. He moved the party less right and to the centre. Brown, a weak Prime Minister had nothing new to offer. But the difference was Cameron failed to get the Conservatives a majority.
// The old Labour faithful were kept quiet because they knew the Tony & Mandy team was their only chance of staying in government. //
Likewise Cameron. Not everyone was happy with the Conservatives move leftwards. Being nice to gays and ethnics was not the old Tory way. Tory grassroots either joined UKIP or put up with it because they had been out of power for 13 years, and this was their way back.
// The Iraq war was Tony's nemesis (lovely word). He'd privately promised to support Bush in going to war. Bush had his troops sitting in the desert heat, dosed up with drugs to protect against germ warfare, and had to go into action in the next few days, or get his troops back home. //
Cameron nearly fell into the same trap. Only Miliband orchestrated a Commons defeat and we were kept out of the awful Syrian conflict. Or history would mow be repeating itself.
// Tony went along with the situation and took us to war without justification.
He and his boys dreamed up the famous dossier, then and now an obvious pack of lies. //
That's pretty much accurate.
//Tony saw the end coming, and dropped the truly awful Brown into the mess he'd left. //
There had been a pact for many years that was publically known, that Blair would hand over to Brown. Most people expected it an election sooner. Some Prime Ministers are lucky and Blair was. He had weak Conservative Opposition leaders throughout his reign, and he was lucky to move before the house of cards fell with the financial crash.
I think you might find that when push comes to shove in the privacy of the election booth, many of those who say they are going to vote for UKIP will instead hold their noses and vote Conservative in order to try to keep Labour out, so I wouldn't rule out a small conservative majority just like the surprise John Major win in 1992.
Dave50
Cameron couldn't get a majority in 2010. I don't think that after 5 years the Conservatives are more popular now, they are less so. Incumbants usually lose votes. I don't think UKIP will win many, if any Conservatives seats, but they will damage the Conservative vote. To what extent remains to be seen.
On the flip side, Labour will gain from the backlash against the LibDems, but will be hit by loses to the SNP in Scotland.
Cameron couldn't get a majority in 2010. I don't think that after 5 years the Conservatives are more popular now, they are less so. Incumbants usually lose votes. I don't think UKIP will win many, if any Conservatives seats, but they will damage the Conservative vote. To what extent remains to be seen.
On the flip side, Labour will gain from the backlash against the LibDems, but will be hit by loses to the SNP in Scotland.
Venator,
I was never taken in by Blair. My assessment may differ from yours, but in essence we are saying a similar thing. But you have to conceed he won 3 elections so he was successful. Perhaps that led to his unfortunate legacy and the lies over WMD, he got arrogant and complacent. But the weak Consevative Opposition for 10 years undoubtedly aided him.
I was never taken in by Blair. My assessment may differ from yours, but in essence we are saying a similar thing. But you have to conceed he won 3 elections so he was successful. Perhaps that led to his unfortunate legacy and the lies over WMD, he got arrogant and complacent. But the weak Consevative Opposition for 10 years undoubtedly aided him.
venator, not at all. Rather pleased that someone else has seen through his tactics.
Dave, I think the majority of those who say they intend to vote Ukip will revert to the mainstream parties in a General Election – although I wouldn’t, as Gromit suggests, assume that Ukip poses a danger only to the Conservatives. A recent by-election demonstrated that Labour voters are just as likely to defect as anyone else.
Dave, I think the majority of those who say they intend to vote Ukip will revert to the mainstream parties in a General Election – although I wouldn’t, as Gromit suggests, assume that Ukip poses a danger only to the Conservatives. A recent by-election demonstrated that Labour voters are just as likely to defect as anyone else.
You're right, Gromit, but his success in remodelling Labour and holding onto power must pale before his failings.
Iraq wasn't the Falklands, as he'd hoped.
Depends what colour glasses we wear.
I must stop posting about politics. It's starting to feel like some of those infinitely recursive hair splitting religion marathons.
Iraq wasn't the Falklands, as he'd hoped.
Depends what colour glasses we wear.
I must stop posting about politics. It's starting to feel like some of those infinitely recursive hair splitting religion marathons.
A Daily Mail link for you...
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The Guardian likens his Tonyness ( love that name ) to a Condor !.
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