Crosswords0 min ago
We Are Not Gay Bakers
Another one of these rulings
http://
This is a bit odd though
//His party colleague David McIlveen tweeted: "Utterly sickened that a Christian owned business has been hauled over the coals for refusing to promote something that is not legal in NI."//
http://
This is a bit odd though
//His party colleague David McIlveen tweeted: "Utterly sickened that a Christian owned business has been hauled over the coals for refusing to promote something that is not legal in NI."//
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> life style choices, such as homosexuality...
While I do know of some people who have "gone gay" in later life, for the most part the gays I know, including a sibling who I therefore grew up with through childhood, were born that way. And I'm pretty sure that people who kill themselves for being gay didn't adopt it as a lifestyle choice.
Religion? Now there's a lifestyle choice ...
While I do know of some people who have "gone gay" in later life, for the most part the gays I know, including a sibling who I therefore grew up with through childhood, were born that way. And I'm pretty sure that people who kill themselves for being gay didn't adopt it as a lifestyle choice.
Religion? Now there's a lifestyle choice ...
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joggerjayne
The moment that Christians and Muslims (and to a much lesser extent Hindus and Jews) stop telling their congregations of the evils of homosexuality, and the moment those 'of faith' stop throwing their kids out of their homes, I will have sympathy with their plight.
Until then, my sympathy remains with those who live in fear for no fault of their own. A fear which is exploited and promoted by certain religious establishments and their followers.
By the way the term 'bullying' doesn't even begin to describe some of the horror stories I encountered whilst volunteering for a gay youth crisis centre. I find it SO frustrating when people are dismissive in this way. It's not 'bullying' when a lad is banned from his own mother's funeral because his dad finds out he's gay. It's not 'bullying' to throw a 14 year old out on the streets. And it's not 'bullying' to cut a teenage girl off from the rest of her family...for eight years.
These are three separate cases, and in all three - it was religion that was the root cause.
God...it REALLY infuriates me.
The moment that Christians and Muslims (and to a much lesser extent Hindus and Jews) stop telling their congregations of the evils of homosexuality, and the moment those 'of faith' stop throwing their kids out of their homes, I will have sympathy with their plight.
Until then, my sympathy remains with those who live in fear for no fault of their own. A fear which is exploited and promoted by certain religious establishments and their followers.
By the way the term 'bullying' doesn't even begin to describe some of the horror stories I encountered whilst volunteering for a gay youth crisis centre. I find it SO frustrating when people are dismissive in this way. It's not 'bullying' when a lad is banned from his own mother's funeral because his dad finds out he's gay. It's not 'bullying' to throw a 14 year old out on the streets. And it's not 'bullying' to cut a teenage girl off from the rest of her family...for eight years.
These are three separate cases, and in all three - it was religion that was the root cause.
God...it REALLY infuriates me.
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Presumably the whole thing about gay people objecting to the term "queer", when used by heterosexuals, is now obsolete.
Mr Lee wanted the baker to emblazon the words "QUEER Space" on top of the cake.
What if the baker had simply said ...
I think the word "QUEER" is unpleasant and derogatory, and I don't want my bakery to be associated with the use of that word. ?
"You either get your bakery to write the word "QUEER" or I will sue you!
Mr Lee wanted the baker to emblazon the words "QUEER Space" on top of the cake.
What if the baker had simply said ...
I think the word "QUEER" is unpleasant and derogatory, and I don't want my bakery to be associated with the use of that word. ?
"You either get your bakery to write the word "QUEER" or I will sue you!
Balders ... I have noted the point, by analogy with a Rastafarian asking a baker to make a cake supporting the use of cannabis.
To say yes means advocating something not accepted by the law.
To say no means discriminating against the customer's religion.
Who'd be a baker, eh?
Happily, I couldn't bake a cake to save my life.
To say yes means advocating something not accepted by the law.
To say no means discriminating against the customer's religion.
Who'd be a baker, eh?
Happily, I couldn't bake a cake to save my life.
It's not illegal to hate blacks Bazile :-)
It does raise the issue of morality though. Which is more immoral, to force someone to do something that they find immoral, or to force them to do it because it's someone else's right to demand it of them ? "Only following orders", is no defence. Should one obey a law one finds immoral and penalised if one does not ?
Maybe a little more tolerance and finding an artisan who is willing, is the sensible course of action. Taking sides does not seem to be the rasion detre for law.
It does raise the issue of morality though. Which is more immoral, to force someone to do something that they find immoral, or to force them to do it because it's someone else's right to demand it of them ? "Only following orders", is no defence. Should one obey a law one finds immoral and penalised if one does not ?
Maybe a little more tolerance and finding an artisan who is willing, is the sensible course of action. Taking sides does not seem to be the rasion detre for law.
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Clanad...with the greatest of respect, I must disagree with you.
First of all, your analogy of the no shirt sign, no service is entirely disingenuous...it has nothing whatsoever to do with discrimination as discussed in this thread.
Homosexuality, your race and colour are accidents of birth, over which nobody has any choice. But religion is a choice that people can make. All over the world people are fighting and dying for issues such as religion, but I have never heard of Christian and Gays murdering each other over issues such as cakes !
You bring up the American Constitution. You are on rocky ground for a start there. If we could go back in time and ask the founding fathers whether the bit about bearing arms was really meant to ensure that 1000's of innocent people were to die each year, especially many entirely innocent children, mowed down while at school, I am 100% convinced that they would say no, of course not and be horrified at our stories from hundreds of years later.
But I don't like to intrude upon personal grief and you and your countrymen will have to fight that one out for yourselves. I for one, am glad that after 2 serious massacres, gun ownership is severely curtailed in Britain.
The bakers in this case choose to be Christians and go further by choosing how their interpret their beliefs. But the people who tried to order the cake didn't choose to be gay. The choice of that was denied them by nature.
I am not sure if you are an American or a Brit living in America but we have many laws, keenly fought for, to protect the innocent from being discriminated against. I am unsure if you have similar enlightened laws on your side of the Atlantic or not. If you don't, then the bully and the bigot will continue to prevail.
First of all, your analogy of the no shirt sign, no service is entirely disingenuous...it has nothing whatsoever to do with discrimination as discussed in this thread.
Homosexuality, your race and colour are accidents of birth, over which nobody has any choice. But religion is a choice that people can make. All over the world people are fighting and dying for issues such as religion, but I have never heard of Christian and Gays murdering each other over issues such as cakes !
You bring up the American Constitution. You are on rocky ground for a start there. If we could go back in time and ask the founding fathers whether the bit about bearing arms was really meant to ensure that 1000's of innocent people were to die each year, especially many entirely innocent children, mowed down while at school, I am 100% convinced that they would say no, of course not and be horrified at our stories from hundreds of years later.
But I don't like to intrude upon personal grief and you and your countrymen will have to fight that one out for yourselves. I for one, am glad that after 2 serious massacres, gun ownership is severely curtailed in Britain.
The bakers in this case choose to be Christians and go further by choosing how their interpret their beliefs. But the people who tried to order the cake didn't choose to be gay. The choice of that was denied them by nature.
I am not sure if you are an American or a Brit living in America but we have many laws, keenly fought for, to protect the innocent from being discriminated against. I am unsure if you have similar enlightened laws on your side of the Atlantic or not. If you don't, then the bully and the bigot will continue to prevail.
Stuey...I am unsure if the gays were actively courting publicity over this issue, but its not them that are in the wrong.
We had a similar case in Cornwall, over the gays wanting to stay in a small B+B owned by Christians. The B+B owners lost their case at varying higher levels of Courts because they were in the wrong. Its as simple as that.
We had a similar case in Cornwall, over the gays wanting to stay in a small B+B owned by Christians. The B+B owners lost their case at varying higher levels of Courts because they were in the wrong. Its as simple as that.
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