We Are All In This Together Apparently !

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33463864

What a surprise ! Poor people getting poorer !

[ToraToraTora]

you have a book?

[dave50]

The more the lefties strive to eradicate poverty as they keep on about, through ever increasing benefits, the less incentive is for people to find work. If you are have a roof over your head, food on the table, heating and lighting and clothing, without having to work then why bother? That is the problem, there has to be a certain amount of misery at the bottom of the pile or nobody would bother and the country really would go bankrupt.

[ichkeria]

It's hard to see how raising the minimum wage - especially as the Tories propose to do it - is going to do any of the things suggested above. Heartening as it now is to see the principle finally being supported by Tory supporters :-)
A minimum wage was only ever intended to act as a safety net. Tinkering with it as Labour also would have done although without cutting the supplements, is really no more it seems to me than a political move: it makes people think the Tories are the party that supports people who get off their backsides and is against alleged scrounges on benefits but I don't see how even that can be the case. Many of the benefits cut are being cut from people who work and work hard more over.

[Svejk]

Obviously, ichi, you either didn't read or couldn't understand some of the previous comments before, er, commenting on them.

[ichkeria]

You're quite right Svejk: I was referring to the comments on the minimum wage in a separate thread. So they don't relate to the scrounger bashing above :-)

[naomi24]

Scroungers deserve bashing.

[naomi24]

//landlord for example owns 10 houses already paid for//

'Paid for' being the operative words. He didn't get them for free.

[Hypognosis]

I thought the idea was that the renters, in essence, pay the mortgage on the home the landlord is renting to them. Plus a little profit. Plus the "annual service charge", maintainence fees, decorating fees, one-off repair fees.

It's not like landlords have to bust a gut, to get a (nearly) 'free' house and a profit margin.

[naomi24]

Business emanates from enterprise.

[ummmm]

Mikey....I don't know what the answer is but looking at realistically it's money for nothing.

I always thought that benefits should be linked to how much you've paid in. Tax credits are paid by HMRC so it can't be hard to see how much you've worked. Help out the hard worker who use the benefits system for what it was set up for.....while they are looking for another job. Some sort of points system like they do when you apply for a council house.

[jim360]

"Why would any person want to work all week and then go cap in hand to the state to be able to live.
What I can't figure out is why some people on the left seem so happy to boost the profits of global corporations who pay minimal wages."

On the other hand, I would have thought that one of the implications of free market rules is that companies ought to be able to set their own employees' wages. Describing those on tax credits as going "cap in hand" to the state is somewhat unfair as a result, although to be sure the system of Tax Credits has had more than its fair share of trouble in its short history.

I'm not really sure what the answer is, although I'm not convinced that doing away with Tax Credits altogether (or, at least, absorbing some of it into Universal Credit) will be effective, unless the tax threshold is also raised in the coming years.

[jim360]

Incidentally, Working Tax Credit was a replacement of Working Families Tax Credit (introduced 1997), which replaced Family Credit (1986), which in turn replaced Family Income Supplement (1970), which replaced... nothing.

So it's actually all Edward Heath's fault.

[TWR]

It seems there are lots of comments on the O Q how WOULD YOU sort it out?

[ummmm]

If housing was cheaper then loads of people wouldn't need topping up.

I've said it before on here. My mortgage is £140 a month. My neighbours pay £800 in rent. The difference is affording to live and not affording to live.

[ummmm]

And my mortgage will be paid off in 4 years....and they'll still be paying rent.

[Svejk]

///On the other hand, I would have thought that one of the implications of free market rules is that companies ought to be able to set their own employees' wages///

But isn't that the point, jim. It's not 'free market rules' because the market is skewed by the introduction of 'in-work' benefits.
As they discovered 200 years ago (Speenhamland System) when you introduce this sort of thing, it will be abused (by employers).

[naomi24]

Ummmm, If your mortgage will be finished in 4 years I assume you've been paying it for a number of years - at least since £140 a month was a lot of money? You could hardly expect to rent a house for that these days.

[jim360]

But the in-work benefits were introduced because the wages were already too low anyway. I don't see that withdrawing those benefits will say to employers "OK, you can start paying your workers more money now." It will just mean that the problem that was faced by such workers will no longer be addressed.

I do think that the approach taken by the current Conservative government is on the right lines, though. I'd just look to phase out Tax Credit (or, after 2017/18, Universal Credit for those in work) after increasing the minimum wage to £9/hour, and after also raising the tax threshold still further, rather than during those changes.

[ummmm]

Of course, Naomi, but sometimes it just comes down to luck. Just bought at the right time.

But to have to pay £800 in rent before you've taken into consideration bills and food...that's why people need topping up.