A woman starved because she had no letterbox

[simsfreq]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16147109&me thod=full&siteid=94762&headline=left-to-starve-- -because-she-didn-t-have-a-letterbox--name_page.html

What is this about? I head this in brief on the news on the radio this morning and almost took it as a joke - what kind of sick story is this anyway?

[flump1]

 a very very sad one simsfreq.

[bernardo]

I notice that the key facts of the story are not mentioned until the end - she discharged herself from hospital; she did not let the workers in when they tried to install a letterbox; she refused all offers of help.

[january_bug]

Bit of a cheek from the family blaming social services.  I know they might not live near by, but with all those relatives, I think it's pretty poor that not one of them thought to telephone their mother/grandmother at least once a week.  Perhaps they did and the story is biased, but I'm sure the old lady could have got food if she'd wanted to.  Maybe she just didn't want to... after the loss of her second husband. 

Sad story though. 

[woofgang]

Its a really difficult one. people are entititled to refuse help while they are considered to be capable of making that decision. Sometimes if you think that they are not, then you have to decide to drive a truck through the rules. If you are right, you help that person, if you are wrong you can be disciplined or fired.

In a career of 30 years, I have been both right and wrong, luckily never got into trouble for it, but we live in increasingly litigeous times. The other problem is that people are not allowed to exchange information unless they think that the person is at risk, so the postman couldn't talk to the council or the hospital, etcetera

[january_bug]

Good points (and far better made than my earlier, rather confused post!).  Isn't it a pity that the blame and claim culture of this country is putting so many people in fear of doing their jobs properly?  I remember when teachers were first told that if a child falls over in the playground, don't reach to comfort them, unless they reach out to you first.  Well THAT'S gonna make kids feel cared about! 

The law sometimes seems to go OTT doesn't it?  Woofgang's points make me realise this could be one of those examples. 

[Oneeyedvic]

Persoanlly, I blame Tescos - but since I don't have a biochemistry degree, most people won't listen to my opinion.

 

I would also blame the family in this instnace. I am guessing that she would have lasted around 4 - 5 days after leaving hospital (with food she probably had in). In all that time - none of her children or grandchildren could be bothered to visit her at hospital (where they thought she was).

 

What a caring family.

[brachiopod]

I'm with january-bug and vic, with the proviso that they may not live close by, surely one of the "10 children or 30 grand-children" (assuming the latter were old enough) could have telephoned or visited?

I like the quote "If we'd known her benefits were cut and the care visits had stopped, we would have been round there in a flash. But not one person thought to tell us. A simple phone call would have saved her life"

Yeah, and a simple visit by her 'caring' family could have saved her life too.

I know this totally pre-judges the situation, but the whole article is written in such a "Look at what nasty, useless Social Services have done now" way, that one can't help but to try and look a bit deeper into the story.

[metagirl]

i agree with brachiopod on this one. its the family's responsibility to look after old and vulnerable relations. Especially gramma!

Its not our "litigious" culture that is making people afraid of reaching out to others in need, its our own increasing selfishness and lack of sense of shared responsibility for what happens in our communities. Saying that people are afraid to intervene because they are afraid of being sued is a sad excuse.

[libertie]

Yes, some folk find it all to easy to take a back seat and let others take on the responsibility of caring for elderly family, then when things go wrong think nothing of dishing out the blame, forgetting that a little more involvment from them may have prevented the tragedy from happening in the first place!!

[OBonio]

One of the reasons I don't read or watch the 'news' nowadays. It's not 'news', it's one person's sensationalised opinion on what may have happened.

[woofgang]

meta girl, believe me its not selfishness, at least not on my part. I work in the NHS in the community Every time I have ignored the rules on confidentiality. I have thought hard (not long, you haven't usually got long) about two things. First do I really believe that this person is not capable of making their own decisions. NOT are the decisions that they are making sensible but are they demented, ill lacking in capacity? and second is this worth my job if it all goes wrong?

This lady may have a history of refusing care, certainly if she self discharged from hospital, the question of her capacity will have been considered then. Its not uncommon for people to live in circumstances that would curl your hair (and turn your stomach) but to be capable of making their own decisions, ie choosing to live like that. Free choice includes freedom to experience the outcome of your choice. This was a very tragic outcome.

[metagirl]

I understand your point woofgang. But how compromising would a phone call to a family member have been?

In any case, my comments referred to the family and indirect players in this case - the postal worker, neighbors, landlord, friends, relatives. As an American I'm not accustomed to this "quaint" welfare state you have here, so I don't automatically lay blame at the feet of social workers, hospital staff and the like.

My grandpa is a bit obstinate and I could see him trying to do something like this - and by "this" I mean refuse help from others and maybe play to his family that he's perfectly fine on his own. BUT where my family is different I suppose, is we wouldn't take his word and would want to see for ourselves. We've had to intervene a few times already in his "personal" affairs because he wasn't doing what was best for himself. Hell, he even stops taking his medicine when he feels he's "well enough"! There is indeed a fine line between respecting someone's independence and caring for them properly. But, I can't help but keep thinking, "it's Gramma, for chrissakes!" 

It's just a sad fable of modern times, really.

[woofgang]

Yes and the family are the only ones who could have intervened. You might be able to get you grandad to resume his medicine, I can assure you that short of going to law, a UK health or social care worker cannot and I believe that the same is true in the US.

The postman may well have knocked on the door and been told to ****** (insert your own word here) off, the landlord actually was the council (local authority) and again, if the workers who came to fit the letterbox were told the same as the postman, there was likely nothing that they could do. Neither organisation would have contact details for any of the family who, I understand lived some distance away.

 My familty is different from this, I think (hope) that most of our families are. In my experience, they are. What got right up my nose was the family's bland disavowal of any responsibility as recorded by the media.

[netibiza]

But surely the family kept in close touch.  I cannot imagine letting an elderly parent live without anyone of us in fmaily checking daily.

[woofgang]

according to the report, Neti, not!

[ursula62]

Also the lack of neighbour contact can cause this sort of tragedy too.

When I was a child, if we were going out to the shops my mum would pop in and see the old ladies nearby in the winter, to make sure they were ok and didn't need any shopping.

Just one person knocking at the door could have saved that old lady.

Its not just the family who are at fault - it's all of society, because of the way we have chosen to live.

[january_bug]

First, in a bit of a hurry so have read nothing below metagirl's post from 11:07 this morning.  Will read the others with interest later. 

metagirl - My earlier comments about the litigious society, referred to the postman etc, not to the family.  I feel that a lot of the blame lies at the feet of the family, as I said.  I'm not opposing your view, just clarifying my own! :-)

[woofgang]

well yes ursula, but that neighbour knocking could have been told to **** off too!

[january_bug]

Surely users realise that by blaming society, by implication they tar themselves and all other AB users with the black brush of the family in the story.  As many have done before me, I can assure you all that as a family we care for my grandparents.  My parents are both only children and I am also an only child.  We cannot shift the burden to siblings... we are "it".  There  are caring families in society.  Blaming "society" seems a bit strange... for who is the finger really pointed at?

[Ward-Minter]

january bug I find myself in the very unusaly position of actually agreeing with you. Sad tale this but too right the family should take the blame. I call me dear ol' gran once a week and make sure I see her whenever I can and she lives 300 miles away. Fair enough she has two house maids, a butler and a chauffeur but that's besides the point.

I bet this so-called "caring" family are quick to visit the solicitors about claiming all her back pension. Scum.