Economic Migrants Or Fleeing The War?

[naomi24]

One of the migrants currently in Hungary died yesterday – a 51 year old Pakistani. If he was fleeing the war in Syria, as we’re told by some here that all of these people are, surely he was heading the wrong way?

Watching the news last night, an awful lot of those people didn't appear to be of Middle Eastern extraction.

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-09-04/migrant-dies-in-hungary-whilst-fleeing-police/

[chaptazbru2]

Couldn't agree more fender.

[jazzyjen]

Maybe the masses currenly in Calais will turn around and go to Germany?

[bazwillrun]

@fender

shame the handwringers wont see it though !

[chaptazbru2]

^ or the do-gooders !

[New Judge]

“Why are we not all helping, say, send whatever is needed to Turkey to temporarily put them up in camps until we have figured out how to stop hostilities in Syria ?”

I would suggest that it is because it is not for Europe to solve. Syria is an Arab country with a predominantly Muslim population. Until about four years ago it was a secular state which provided protection for religious minorities. Courtesy of the so-called “Arab Spring” that situation was, and continues to be challenged. The UK and other western nations very unwisely attempted to take sides in the revolution with disastrous results. Their intervention did not cause the problem but their encouragement to those trying to alter the status quo when they should have kept their own counsel is plain for all to say.

Syria has plenty of Arab and Muslim neighbours. They should help solve the problem and have plenty of money and space available to accommodate those allegedly displaced.

“…in fairness if the trip is more dangerous than stopping…”

Then they should stay there.

“If you and your young family were living in fear of your lives, whether it is Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc, would you stay and be killed ? Or would you try to escape to a place of safety and try to rebuild your lives ?”

Mikey, Mikey, Mikey. They are not in fear of their lives in Turkey and certainly not so in Hungary, Italy or Greece. They are in a place of safety. It may not be as agreeable as the place they’d like to be, but that’s not the question you posed. Of course it’s true that Greece and Italy cannot deal with all of them. Then they have two options – either prevent them arriving or negotiate with other countries on their resettlement. Instead of that they are simply ushering cross their borders in clear contravention of UN and EU protocols. It’s unfortunate that the places they seek to leave are not adjacent to those they are seeking to get to. But nobody said life would be fair.

Most people can understand why people are fleeing danger. What they cannot understand is that, having reached safety they “demand” to be allowed to travel wherever they like with ever increasing levels of disobedience and violence. As I have pointed out in other questions, that’s not the deal. As soon as they reach safety they should apply for asylum. Anything after that and they are no longer refugees.

[ladybirder]

Thank you for that last post NJ, sums it all up very nicely.

[chaptazbru2]

Excellent post as usual NJ ...

[New Judge]

Thanks, both for your support.

To reinforce my argument I have discovered today that the family who tragically saw the wife and two children drown a few days ago (and has led to a considerable amount of emotion and hypocrisy from many of the usual supects) had, apparently, been in Turkey for more than a year. Just what peril were they enduring that forced them, after so long, to take to a rubber dinghy to cross the Aegean Sea? How was their safety and security suddenly jeopardised to such a degree that they should take the enormous risk that they did?

I am by no means seeking to trivialise the death of those people. Any death is tragic and that is especially so of young children. But I was led to believe by those whom I describe as the "usual suspects" that they were among those fleeing gassing, bombing and general persecution in their homeland. They were not. They were fleeing from Bodrum, which is a popular holiday resort for many Europeans.

[Davemano]

Another 'first class' report.

[retrocop]

NJ
This was something I mentioned earlier.As we talk about an emotive photo people on this site jump in with both feet and talking of the shame that is bought upon certain people /countries when their hearts rule their brain. If only they would take a breath and let the true facts emerge first. The usual suspects never learn.
It was my contention when this photo was published that Brits were enjoying their holidays in Bodrum and it was hardly a war zone to escape from. I believe I mentioned migrants dictating which country was their destination of choice!! The father who killed his family has just waltzed back into Syria!!!
th

[retrocop]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I also believe the emotional word "fleeing" should be discontinued. These Syrians seem to come and go into Syria as they please within 24hours.

[tamborine]

Here is the syrian surgeons story. He had to leave Turkey coz he couldnt work and has made it to Greece by traffiker boat. He is heading for UK cos he speaks English .

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/video/syrian-surgeon-worst-just-begun-110012560.html

[vetuste_ennemi]

"We know nothing about this man that Naomi has unearthed".
Somewhat premature, Naomi - poor chap isn't buried yet.

[Sammy48]

I don't see the Sheik's sons driving round London collecting parking tickets in their million pound super cars out collecting items that have been collected for the refugees.

[Hypognosis]

Hey, guess who is propping up Assad?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11845635/Vladimir-Putin-confirms-Russian-military-involvement-in-Syrias-civil-war.html

I wonder who is buying ISIL's oil output?

[Hypognosis]

@mikey4444

I shouldn't fact-check people who back me up but hyperbole got the better of you, this time:-

//Hypo....Pakistan was born in blood. Millions of people lost their lives in bitter fighting,//

How far back are you calculating?

// after Independence was granted to India. //

Oh? In that case
India
1,500 killed[5][6][7]
3,500 wounded[citation needed]
Pakistan
6,000 killed[citation needed]
~14,000 wounded[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1947

Another 7000, in total, for this one (neutral claims)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1965

//Pakistan is a highly unstable country, where the Taliban still control certain areas. Not sure I would want to live there. //

A few hundred thousand people of Pakistani heritage, around these parts, evidently agree with you on that sentiment.

[Hypognosis]

These are doing the rounds, on Facebook

(I've had https links fail on AB, before now. I've changed both of them to http so, if they fail, that's the reason.)

Kobani, as it looks now
http://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/11999045_10204871445209163_3532588491802148855_n.jpg?oh=281a421d5472ba3570d51ae64d34aaab&oe=56A89FD9

Homs before & after

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdVSBqVCAAAzBV0.jpg

[Hypognosis]

Even the Wall Street Journal can gets its geography in a twist, it seems. This necessitates them putting words/interpretation in someone's mouth, to make the error fit his words

--------------WSJ---------------
“From now on, I will live (in Kobani) too. I want to be buried with my family,” he said outside the morgue in the nearby town of Mugla.
---------------------------------

Mugla was in Turkey, last I recall. I REPEAT he has not "crossed the border back into Syria" (see earlier posts on this thread)

-------------WSJ---------------
Mr. Kurdi brought his family to Turkey three years ago after fleeing fighting first in Damascus, where he worked as a barber, then in Aleppo, then Kobani. His Facebook page shows pictures of the family in Istanbul crossing the Bosporus and feeding pigeons next to the famous Yeni Cami, or new mosque.
--------------------------------
http://www.wsj.com/articles/image-of-syrian-boy-washed-up-on-beach-hits-hard-1441282847


Hmm. If you've crossed the Bosphorous and been around Istanbul, surely you can get to Greece on foot, from there?



I keep wanting to ask, if they've got thousands of dollars to pay to smugglers, what the heck is stopping them from getting on a plane but it's a dumb question and I already know the answer(s).


p.s.

This one also mentions the family spending three years living in Turkey but does not cite its sources and only the header/footer and margins make the page look in any way professionally made. I hesitate to count it as a reliable source.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a9a_1441363187

yaDa Milli article would be a third but I haven't stopped to look at it.