Family & Relationships19 mins ago
Economic Migrants Or Fleeing The War?
One of the migrants currently in Hungary died yesterday – a 51 year old Pakistani. If he was fleeing the war in Syria, as we’re told by some here that all of these people are, surely he was heading the wrong way?
Watching the news last night, an awful lot of those people didn't appear to be of Middle Eastern extraction.
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Watching the news last night, an awful lot of those people didn't appear to be of Middle Eastern extraction.
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from a Telegraph letter...
" SIR – By offering sanctuary to Syrians and those pretending to be, Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, has made a number of game-changing mistakes as far as the European Union is concerned. She has ridden roughshod over the Dublin agreement and called into question the Schengen agreement. She has shown that it is she, and not the European Commissioners, who leads the EU.
More importantly, she and her advisers have shown a complete lack of understanding of how migrants should be dealt with and have failed to heed the lessons from the Balkan conflict of the Nineties.
From 1991 to 1995 well over a million Bosnians, mainly Bosnian Muslims, were displaced within Bosnia or left as refugees. The latter were welcomed with open arms in many EU countries.
Few refugees returned once they had made a home for themselves in the EU. I was part of a well-funded team that attempted to return refugees and displaced persons to Bosnia after the conflict. Our success was limited.
We now see a well-orchestrated mass movement of mainly young men into Europe. The offer by Germany will maintain this momentum and they will be followed by their spouses and families. The vast majority will not return. Sifting out the economic migrants from the asylum seekers, and returning the former, is impossible – human rights laws and unscrupulous lawyers have put paid to that.
Mrs Merkel’s generosity has also put Hungary, Slovakia, Poland and the Czech Republic in a difficult position. They are keen members of the EU, but can ill afford, economically or politically, to take tens of thousands of migrants. Their political leadership has only one choice and that is to refuse to bow to pressure. Substantial cracks will soon appear in the EU club. "
" SIR – By offering sanctuary to Syrians and those pretending to be, Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, has made a number of game-changing mistakes as far as the European Union is concerned. She has ridden roughshod over the Dublin agreement and called into question the Schengen agreement. She has shown that it is she, and not the European Commissioners, who leads the EU.
More importantly, she and her advisers have shown a complete lack of understanding of how migrants should be dealt with and have failed to heed the lessons from the Balkan conflict of the Nineties.
From 1991 to 1995 well over a million Bosnians, mainly Bosnian Muslims, were displaced within Bosnia or left as refugees. The latter were welcomed with open arms in many EU countries.
Few refugees returned once they had made a home for themselves in the EU. I was part of a well-funded team that attempted to return refugees and displaced persons to Bosnia after the conflict. Our success was limited.
We now see a well-orchestrated mass movement of mainly young men into Europe. The offer by Germany will maintain this momentum and they will be followed by their spouses and families. The vast majority will not return. Sifting out the economic migrants from the asylum seekers, and returning the former, is impossible – human rights laws and unscrupulous lawyers have put paid to that.
Mrs Merkel’s generosity has also put Hungary, Slovakia, Poland and the Czech Republic in a difficult position. They are keen members of the EU, but can ill afford, economically or politically, to take tens of thousands of migrants. Their political leadership has only one choice and that is to refuse to bow to pressure. Substantial cracks will soon appear in the EU club. "
One probably wouldn't need to do much re sorting one refugee/immigrant from the another if the system was adhered to and authorities didn't have a total collapse of will after a photo.
Syria has borders with, what ? About 5 other countries ? Why are we not all helping, say, send whatever is needed to Turkey to temporarily put them up in camps until we have figured out how to stop hostilities in Syria ? I'm not saying other nearby countries might not be asked to help give similar relief to help Turkey cope, but it should never be as far reaching as it has become. Stick to the rules and if someone from elsewhere wants to join in the crowd near the Syrian border they are welcome to.
Problem is so many want to feel good about themselves and argue for what gives them that feeling of being the good compassionate ones, rather than get behind the best solutions. Emotional reactions can end up causing many avoidable issues.
Syria has borders with, what ? About 5 other countries ? Why are we not all helping, say, send whatever is needed to Turkey to temporarily put them up in camps until we have figured out how to stop hostilities in Syria ? I'm not saying other nearby countries might not be asked to help give similar relief to help Turkey cope, but it should never be as far reaching as it has become. Stick to the rules and if someone from elsewhere wants to join in the crowd near the Syrian border they are welcome to.
Problem is so many want to feel good about themselves and argue for what gives them that feeling of being the good compassionate ones, rather than get behind the best solutions. Emotional reactions can end up causing many avoidable issues.
Thanks for posting this Bazwillrun. I have steam coming out of my head this morning because I feel the same as the writer. Why is Angela Merkel and Germany getting away with this, why are other leaders not standing up to her. I fear for Europe and future generations. I don't want to be ruled by Germany.
And I agree with Naomi. Also an awful lot of these migrants seem to be young single aggressive young men and that worries me too.
And I agree with Naomi. Also an awful lot of these migrants seem to be young single aggressive young men and that worries me too.
What is beginning to annoy me more and more is hearing bodies like yesterday the UN and previously countries like USA saying, from a distance, that 'Europe must do more'. None of these problems are in Europe, why should it be seen as a European problem? There are many safe places in the African continent alone.
Well said sandy at 08:50. We know nothing about this man that Naomi has unearthed but lots on here are jumping to the usual conclusions without a shred of evidence.
Didn't that Malala Yousafzai come from Pakistan ? What would people be saying now, if she had managed to escape before she was shot, and turned up in Greece or Hungary ?
Didn't that Malala Yousafzai come from Pakistan ? What would people be saying now, if she had managed to escape before she was shot, and turned up in Greece or Hungary ?
Terrified people fleeing certain death do not occupy trains and stations while demanding a choice in their final destination.
Those people are particularly vocal, grasping disgruntled tourists with the vital knowledge that we don't like conflict situations making us look bad, especially if it's televised.
We're being played and our politicians are an absolute disgrace for caving in to the unwashed beggars over one tragic photo.
We're doomed unless things stop now.
Those people are particularly vocal, grasping disgruntled tourists with the vital knowledge that we don't like conflict situations making us look bad, especially if it's televised.
We're being played and our politicians are an absolute disgrace for caving in to the unwashed beggars over one tragic photo.
We're doomed unless things stop now.
Mikey, //We know nothing about this man that Naomi has unearthed//
I haven't 'unearthed' him. His death has been reported by most of the main news outlets, including ITV, BBC, and Reuters. Furthermore, if as sandyRoe suggests (a suggestion that you enthusiastically endorse) this man had fled the Taliban, Syria seems a strange choice of refuge.
I haven't 'unearthed' him. His death has been reported by most of the main news outlets, including ITV, BBC, and Reuters. Furthermore, if as sandyRoe suggests (a suggestion that you enthusiastically endorse) this man had fled the Taliban, Syria seems a strange choice of refuge.
Naomi...you are clearly using this chap to try to prove that many of the desperate people arriving in Greece, and other places are not really fleeing for their lives. My point about Malala is valid.....if she had died in Hungary, instead of becoming famous for being shot in Pakistan by the Taliban, you and others would be making the same comments.
Islamic extremism is making millions of people lives a misery, not just in Syria. I have asked this question before. If you and your young family were living in fear of your lives, whether it is Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc, would you stay and be killed ? Or would you try to escape to a place of safety and try to rebuild your lives ?
Islamic extremism is making millions of people lives a misery, not just in Syria. I have asked this question before. If you and your young family were living in fear of your lives, whether it is Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc, would you stay and be killed ? Or would you try to escape to a place of safety and try to rebuild your lives ?
@naomi
From Pakistan, I fear your choices are
i) India (diffident about Muslims; iffy weather; Thar desert to cross
ii) The Karakoram mountain range; bring some rope and a metal dog-tag
iii) Afghanistan; Taliban central
iv) Iran; no comment
v) Arabian peninsular; might let you in, to work yourself into an early grave on a tower block build, or a sand-island housing estate if you're lucky.
From Pakistan, I fear your choices are
i) India (diffident about Muslims; iffy weather; Thar desert to cross
ii) The Karakoram mountain range; bring some rope and a metal dog-tag
iii) Afghanistan; Taliban central
iv) Iran; no comment
v) Arabian peninsular; might let you in, to work yourself into an early grave on a tower block build, or a sand-island housing estate if you're lucky.
As already pointed out these so called asylum seekers are young men, why are they not fighting for their country of birth, seems to me they are little more than cowards.
What would have happened if all of the young men in this country had sought asylum in another country during WW2?
Perhaps an idea would be to conscript these young men, train them and then transport them back to Syria to fight for it's freedom.
What would have happened if all of the young men in this country had sought asylum in another country during WW2?
Perhaps an idea would be to conscript these young men, train them and then transport them back to Syria to fight for it's freedom.
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