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Xenophobic, Bigotted, Racist, Islamophobic, Extremely Rude, Or All Five?
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andy hughes, I asked you how do you know the two women were innocent?
you answered with....
Are you seriously trying to defend this woman's behaviour by 'giving her the benefit of the doubt'?
Seriously?
Well no, I at no time would defend behaviour like that...now can you answer my question?
18:42 Fri 16th Oct 2015
I see you are posting so...any chance of an answer andy?
you answered with....
Are you seriously trying to defend this woman's behaviour by 'giving her the benefit of the doubt'?
Seriously?
Well no, I at no time would defend behaviour like that...now can you answer my question?
18:42 Fri 16th Oct 2015
I see you are posting so...any chance of an answer andy?
Talbot - //andy hughes, I asked you how do you know the two women were innocent?
you answered with....
Are you seriously trying to defend this woman's behaviour by 'giving her the benefit of the doubt'?
Seriously?
Well no, I at no time would defend behaviour like that...now can you answer my question?
18:42 Fri 16th Oct 2015
I see you are posting so...any chance of an answer andy?//
Apologies for the delay – went out as you posted – just got back.
Of course, the most obvious response is that I do not know that the two women were innocent, but in my experience, if two people, or two lots of people are having an argument, there is an exchange going on, and if the women in question were giving as good as they got, I would be happy to assume with reasonable certainty, that they were playing their part in escalating the situation.
But the fact that they were silent, apart from exhanges to each other in their own language, and that all the shouting came from the woman we heard, it does infer that she started a rant, and simply got carried away when she got no reaction, apart from the one described, which probably served to inflame her anger even more.
This is all based on assumption, but I think given my explanation, it is reasonable.
you answered with....
Are you seriously trying to defend this woman's behaviour by 'giving her the benefit of the doubt'?
Seriously?
Well no, I at no time would defend behaviour like that...now can you answer my question?
18:42 Fri 16th Oct 2015
I see you are posting so...any chance of an answer andy?//
Apologies for the delay – went out as you posted – just got back.
Of course, the most obvious response is that I do not know that the two women were innocent, but in my experience, if two people, or two lots of people are having an argument, there is an exchange going on, and if the women in question were giving as good as they got, I would be happy to assume with reasonable certainty, that they were playing their part in escalating the situation.
But the fact that they were silent, apart from exhanges to each other in their own language, and that all the shouting came from the woman we heard, it does infer that she started a rant, and simply got carried away when she got no reaction, apart from the one described, which probably served to inflame her anger even more.
This is all based on assumption, but I think given my explanation, it is reasonable.
The extra mouthy woman starts with "make me shut up"
That tells me the 'innocent' woman had just told her to 'shut up'
You can hear the innocent woman in the video, another clue that the innocent woman is having a bash at arguing is the shouty woman telling her to shut her mouth (on more than one occasion)
It is your hypocrisy that I am highlighting, andy. You are fond of asking ABers if they are aware of the Full facts...
That tells me the 'innocent' woman had just told her to 'shut up'
You can hear the innocent woman in the video, another clue that the innocent woman is having a bash at arguing is the shouty woman telling her to shut her mouth (on more than one occasion)
It is your hypocrisy that I am highlighting, andy. You are fond of asking ABers if they are aware of the Full facts...
Talbot - // The extra mouthy woman starts with "make me shut up"
That tells me the 'innocent' woman had just told her to 'shut up'
You can hear the innocent woman in the video, another clue that the innocent woman is having a bash at arguing is the shouty woman telling her to shut her mouth (on more than one occasion) //
Fair enough – I made my comments after watching the clip once – and my opinions are based on that – I may have changed my view if I had looked again.
// It is your hypocrisy that I am highlighting, andy. You are fond of asking ABers if they are aware of the Full facts... //
I think an accusation of hypocracy is a bit strong! I may ask if people are in possession of the facts, but I don’t accuse them of being disingenuous if they don’t. And what we are debating here is interpretation of that facts as we discern them from a video clip – and as you have advised, some see more than others.
I may be mistaken, it doesn’t make me a bad person!
That tells me the 'innocent' woman had just told her to 'shut up'
You can hear the innocent woman in the video, another clue that the innocent woman is having a bash at arguing is the shouty woman telling her to shut her mouth (on more than one occasion) //
Fair enough – I made my comments after watching the clip once – and my opinions are based on that – I may have changed my view if I had looked again.
// It is your hypocrisy that I am highlighting, andy. You are fond of asking ABers if they are aware of the Full facts... //
I think an accusation of hypocracy is a bit strong! I may ask if people are in possession of the facts, but I don’t accuse them of being disingenuous if they don’t. And what we are debating here is interpretation of that facts as we discern them from a video clip – and as you have advised, some see more than others.
I may be mistaken, it doesn’t make me a bad person!
THE CORBYLOON - //In comparison to the torrent of abuse from the now arrested woman, the targets of that abuse WERE silent.
If you are not defending her actions, that suggests they were not justified, regardless of what went on before the video began. //
I'd agree.
Regardless of what may have gone on previously, I see that the woman who delivered the tirade has been arrested, the other ladies remain at liberty, which shows whom the police think has to help them with their enquries!
If you are not defending her actions, that suggests they were not justified, regardless of what went on before the video began. //
I'd agree.
Regardless of what may have gone on previously, I see that the woman who delivered the tirade has been arrested, the other ladies remain at liberty, which shows whom the police think has to help them with their enquries!
Talbot - //I didn't say you were a bad person andy although I did take Umbrage (actually I didn't but that is what you are suppossed to say in these circumstances) at your comment......
Are you seriously trying to defend this woman's behaviour by 'giving her the benefit of the doubt'?
Seriously? //
I have re-read your comment that led to the response above, and on reflection, I can see that you were offering a sense of balance to the debate, rather than defending the actions of the lady in question - which was my misinterpretation of what you said.
Observation withdrawn, and apologies offered.
Are you seriously trying to defend this woman's behaviour by 'giving her the benefit of the doubt'?
Seriously? //
I have re-read your comment that led to the response above, and on reflection, I can see that you were offering a sense of balance to the debate, rather than defending the actions of the lady in question - which was my misinterpretation of what you said.
Observation withdrawn, and apologies offered.
I'm sorry I've been off-line today (I didn't feel very well). Thank youy to those who agreed with my point of view.
THE CORBYLOON I never said that people having a quiet, non-public conversation should speak in a foreign language. I said, and hold to, that it is impolite (to say the least) to speak publicly in a foreign language - unless, of course you are a tourist. I held to that principle and so I am entitled to expect that others will do the same.
Language is another way in which some groups living in the U.K. emphasise their difference from their host country.
It is impossible for foreign cultures to become assimilated into British culture unless we start with a common language. The Polish kids I grew up with all had English as their first language and one of my best friends came from that background.
You still made unwarrantable assumptions.
THE CORBYLOON I never said that people having a quiet, non-public conversation should speak in a foreign language. I said, and hold to, that it is impolite (to say the least) to speak publicly in a foreign language - unless, of course you are a tourist. I held to that principle and so I am entitled to expect that others will do the same.
Language is another way in which some groups living in the U.K. emphasise their difference from their host country.
It is impossible for foreign cultures to become assimilated into British culture unless we start with a common language. The Polish kids I grew up with all had English as their first language and one of my best friends came from that background.
You still made unwarrantable assumptions.
JOURDAIN you are being offended because folk are having a conversation you would not be listening to, were it in English. Where is the sense in that?
If two folk whose English is not very good want to talk to each other on a bus, do you expect them to struggle to have a conversation in English or to use their own language?
If two folk whose English is not very good want to talk to each other on a bus, do you expect them to struggle to have a conversation in English or to use their own language?
This from 2012, no it couldn't be, could it?
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THE CORBYLOON - you seem to have missed my point a bit. If people wish to have a 'sotto voce' conversation privately, then it is fine - whatever language they use. If they are conversing loudly enough for the native population to hear - it isn't. It is very unsettling for a native to hear a background noise of foreign conversation. Difficult for me to put it better than that. I know that this is true from my life as an immigrant in France. This is why we made a point of speaking in French (even stilted French, although we both became fairly fluent) when in public spaces. People told me how uneasy they felt with not understanding background chat. It's the same here.
I hold no brief for the appalling outburst of the woman - as I have said - but, yes, I hold to it that, in public hearing, non--English speakers should make an effort to speak English if they are calling themselves residents here. A common language is an absolute requirement. In Germany (I heard today) the accepted immigrants are having 4 (yes 4) hours of German lessons per day. Perfectly correct.
As a student teacher I spent a 'teaching practice' at Drummond Rd. school in Bradford. Remember Ray Honeyford? He became head there a little later. He was right when he said that when the playground language ceased to be English we had a huge problem. Language is the keystone of integration and whatever hope of peace we have.
I hold no brief for the appalling outburst of the woman - as I have said - but, yes, I hold to it that, in public hearing, non--English speakers should make an effort to speak English if they are calling themselves residents here. A common language is an absolute requirement. In Germany (I heard today) the accepted immigrants are having 4 (yes 4) hours of German lessons per day. Perfectly correct.
As a student teacher I spent a 'teaching practice' at Drummond Rd. school in Bradford. Remember Ray Honeyford? He became head there a little later. He was right when he said that when the playground language ceased to be English we had a huge problem. Language is the keystone of integration and whatever hope of peace we have.
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