What Can The Civilised World Do About Islam?

[ToraToraTora]

They pledge death or conversion, so at some point the human race is going to have to deal with this problem, is some sort of apocalypse inevitable?

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// But Islam isn't a terrorist organisation. ///

That is a matter of opinion, in some quarters.

/// Would you have banned Catholicism during the Troubles? ///

They were not trying to take over the World, or even kill all unbelievers.

/// I can understand how membership of terrorist organisations can/should be made - that makes sense...but how do you ban Islam? ///

Make it illegal to follow it, get rid of mosques etc.

/// And do you mean that followers of Islam should be banned in the UK alone? Or do you mean that we should not associate with any country that has Islam as its main religion? ///

Yes just in this country and any other British owed territories. What religions other countries follow are no business of ours, and shouldn't stand in the way of any diplomatic or business relationships.

/// If so - can you explain what happens when we need oil and oil-based products. ///

See above.

/// Please expand on what you mean by making it a banned religion, and what you see happening after that law is implemented. ///

Obviously there will be difficulties, but then again isn't there now, we just do not know when the *** will hit the fan.

But believe me it will, even if there is no ban, it is only a matter of time.

[sp1814]

By the way - YMB and TTT, I'm not saying that you're wrong in what you believe...I'm just trying to get to an 'end point'.

This is what I do for a living...my team are presented with computer problems and we have to design solutions which will deal with the core issue. There will be solutions which address the immediate issue, but can have an adverse effect on the 'end point'.

So - your solutions may have validity, but they are best analysed for the 'end point'.

[youngmafbog]

Yes, true SP. But you have to start somewhere.

As for the Internet, yep a big problem. But not insurmountable.

Unfortunately we all have to accept our civil liberties have to be curbed, at least for a short time. This is no different to any other war so I dont see the problem there.

I think the real issue is reluctance to accept the war that was declared on us combined with a group of people who are hellbent on defending the indefeasible and insistent on slinging the 'racist' tag on anyone who dares say anything.

Inaction is not an option, sooner we start with at least something the better. If nothing else it shows intent.

[youngmafbog]

BTW SP, I do exactly the same for a living.

[sp1814]

AOG

Okay - let's now get to practicalities.

Islam is banned in the UK. The Government orders that all those who follow Islam must either convert to another religion, give Islam or leave the country.

How long should the conversion period be?

Perhaps five years?

If a percentage of Muslims refuse to convert, what should we do then?

I can only think that deportation or internment is the answer to your solution.

If we deport Muslims who refuse to convert, I assume an Act of Parliament would need to be drafted to seize all property and businesses owned by the deportees.

Who gets the money from the sale of Muslim-owned properties and businesses?

[youngmafbog]

I think we should adopt an Agile approach, implement things and take stock for the next 'sprint' depending on how things are going.

I dont think you can define the ultimate end point on this one.

[-Talbot-]

ToraToraTora
what would Napoleon do?


Napoleon represented the civilised world did he?
I think he would be busy committing genocide and attempting to conquer the rest of Europe.

[sp1814]

YMB

I don't think your start point is the right place, because registration and opening up mosques doesn't actually address the biggest problem, and that's the dissemination of extremist materials.

I would suggest a much better place to start is the biggest source of the problem.

Information and ideas.

The biggest source of the above is the Internet. I have no idea why its so difficult to shut down extremist sites.

[ToraToraTora]

SP: "If you agree that there are very few moderate Muslims - what do you do about the (alleged) majority who give their tacit approval for terrorist outrages? " - see my answer to your point 2.

forget oil, the middle east is not vital, plenty of other sources.

[sp1814]

YMB

It's good to hear someone talking language I understand on AB after all this time (you're reference to Agile), but I'm a DBA, not a project manager, so to a certain extent solutions are presented to me.

I then have to tell PMs why their solutions won't work.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// This is what I do for a living...my team are presented with computer problems and we have to design solutions which will deal with the core issue. There will be solutions which address the immediate issue, but can have an adverse effect on the 'end point'. ///

/// So - your solutions may have validity, but they are best analysed for the 'end point'. ///

Perhaps then you would be better employed analysing your own solutions instead of others.

You always seem to come out in defence of Islam/Muslims whereas you yourself have much more to fear from their Indoctrination than most of us.

[ToraToraTora]

agile, load of old pony, I have always used JFDI!

[jomifl]

/just like the Islamic Jihadi's then? /

there are some uncanny parralels.

[youngmafbog]

Well you could be right SP, but I am not sure. My guess is that there is still plenty of radicalization in local Mosques and if not full radicalization then sympathies.

I do agree with tackling the internet. Why don't they do it? Incompetence is my best guess, Governments pay peanuts to programmers so get Monkeys. So while we cant do it then tackle what we can - the local problem area's. That at least sends out a clear message it will not be tolerated.

[Khandro]

First they came for the Muslims and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Muslim.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

With apologies to Martin Niemoeller

[sp1814]

TTT

Sorry - but we absolutely cannot 'forget oil'.

We just can't.

I'm sure you remember what happened back in the 70s when the OPEC nations decided to ramp up the price of a barrel of oil.

What we have to acknowledge is this:

If we leave the Middle East to its own devices, our economy will be compromised. There are other places in the world which we could turn to for oil, but the industry relies heavily on ME suppliers:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/iea-expects-world-to-rely-more-on-middle-east-oil-1401732168

[sp1814]

The issue is bigger than you might first believe...because so many of the products we use depend on this oil supply:

(long boring list to follow)

[sp1814]

Solvents

Diesel fuel

Motor Oil

Bearing Grease

Ink

Floor Wax

Ballpoint Pens

Football Cleats

Upholstery

Sweaters

Boats

Insecticides

Bicycle Tires

Sports Car Bodies

Nail Polish

Fishing lures

Dresses

Tires

Golf Bags

Perfumes

Cassettes

Dishwasher parts

Tool Boxes

Shoe Polish

Motorcycle Helmet

Caulking

Petroleum Jelly

Transparent Tape

CD Player

Faucet Washers

Antiseptics

Clothesline

Curtains

Food Preservatives

Basketballs

Soap

Vitamin Capsules

Antihistamines

Purses

Shoes

Dashboards

Cortisone

Deodorant

Footballs

Putty

Dyes

Panty Hose

Refrigerant

Percolators

Life Jackets

Rubbing Alcohol

Linings

Skis

TV Cabinets

Shag Rugs

Electrician's Tape

Tool Racks

Car Battery Cases

Epoxy

Paint

Mops

Slacks

Insect Repellent

Oil Filters

Umbrellas

Yarn

Fertilizers

Hair Coloring

Roofing

Toilet Seats

Fishing Rods

Lipstick

Denture Adhesive

Linoleum

Ice Cube Trays

Synthetic Rubber

Speakers

Plastic Wood

Electric Blankets

Glycerin

Tennis Rackets

Rubber Cement

Fishing Boots

Dice

Nylon Rope

Candles

Trash Bags

House Paint

Water Pipes

Hand Lotion

Roller Skates

Surf Boards

Shampoo

Wheels

Paint Rollers

Shower Curtains

Guitar Strings

Luggage

Aspirin

Safety Glasses

Antifreeze

Football Helmets

Awnings

Eyeglasses

Clothes

Toothbrushes

Ice Chests

Footballs

Combs

CD's & DVD's

Paint Brushes

Detergents

Vaporizers

Balloons

Sun Glasses

Tents

Heart Valves

Crayons

Parachutes

Telephones

Enamel

Pillows

Dishes

Cameras

Anesthetics

Artificial Turf

Artificial limbs

Bandages

Dentures

Model Cars

Folding Doors

Hair Curlers

Cold cream

Movie film

Soft Contact lenses

Drinking Cups

Fan Belts

Car Enamel

Shaving Cream

Ammonia

Refrigerators

Golf Balls

Toothpaste

Gasoline

[sp1814]

With reduced supply from the ME (because of destabilisation in the region), the price of all those goods will go up. Simple supply and demand will see to that.

Prices rise.

Inflation rises.

Wages have to rise due to increased inflation.

Due to increased wages, inflation rises.

Vicious circle.

Hello 1970s.

[sp1814]

AOG

I'm going to ignore your posts for a while, because I'm engaging in a really interesting debate, and you're not bringing anything to it.

When you decide to talk to me about what I'm saying instead of attacking me, I'll get back to you.

Deal?