Lowest Of The Lows...

[bazwillrun]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3335820/Outrage-Red-Ken-says-7-7-bombers-died-beliefs.html

He is utter filth and him and cor bin laden are no more than traitors....lets hope people like these two never ever get the chance to weild real power in this country, ever..both friends of the terrorists

and just to add salt in the wounds another totally unbiased bbc leftie rent a mob for the occasion...

[viv41]

Re. your first para. baz, you just beat me to it!

However, I do like you andy, but yes, your replies are tedious !

[andy-hughes]

jack - Thank you once again for your support.

I remain at a loss to understand why some people take such exception to my expression of a viewpoint - or rather more, to the way I express it.

At the risk of sounding like the cracked record I am accused of being - those who take exception are entirely welcome to skip past my posts, which will save them the tiresome job of being rude, and having their posts removed for rules transgression.

[andy-hughes]

Baldric - //Togo @ 10:03,
They're never knowingly wrong in their opinion, and when they are they will 'Sceem and screem and screem' until everyone gets 'sick' of hearing it, then they will declare victory! //

If you include me in your 'they' generalisation, please don't - I don't recognise myself in your description. I will always acknowledge if I believe that I am wrong, or indeed if my view is changed by debate, but I don't 'screem'.

[Baldric]

Will go on and on and on ...

///until everyone gets 'sick' of hearing it, then they will declare victory!///

I assume you have no problem with the above part of the post then

[andy-hughes]

Baldric - //I assume you have no problem with the above part of the post then //

Why would I? Who posts an opinion believing it to be wrong?

I think I am on side with everyone who posts an opinion on here - I believe it to be correct, but I am open to persuasion through debate, and am perfectly happy to adjust it if suitable convinced by a contrary point of view.

[andy-hughes]

Baldric - // Will go on and on and on ... //

That's just your interpretation of my willingness to debate - which is rather the point of the section.

[Ric.ror]

I did not 'see' the programme but I listen to it on 5 live and the discussion after.
It just makes me sad that the party I have supported all my life (and I include posting leaflets as a little girl) is engaged in this internal war. Shame on Matt Forde (I think) - he should stay and fight as was suggested by David Blunket

[Sqad]

\\\\jack - Thank you once again for your support. \\\\

I am not sure that that is what you need at the moment.........."two peas in a pod comes to mind"

A-H....I like you, you are an intelligent and articulate person, but life is often more about perception........how does one perceive one's neighbours.
You are a "wind bag", always wanting the last word and the expert in the "put down" category. You tend to talk down to people and make them feel stupid and inferior (they might well be).
These sort of individuals tend not to be popular either at school or in life itself and inadvertently set themselves up for unreasonable flack.......as you do.

It may well be that this is not your intention, but that is not how one perceives you and perception in life is all important.

[tamborine]

Andy, you have misinterpreted KL opinion as a fact for 7/7 terrorism. Kindly prove your statement or withdraw it.

[andy-hughes]

tambourine //Andy, you have misinterpreted KL opinion as a fact for 7/7 terrorism. Kindly prove your statement or withdraw it. //

I'll pass thanks.

I am not in court - I am offering an opinion.

[tamborine]

At last.....your opinion & not a fact Andy

[andy-hughes]

tambourine - //At last.....your opinion & not a fact Andy //

Forgive me for being pedantic - Mr Livingstone stated a fact - I passed an opinion on it.

[bednobs]

i am truly puzzled by this thread and all the fuss. I honestly can't see why what KL said has cause such angst?

[tamborine]

KL has no proof for that fact & therefore his opinion, Andy

[andy-hughes]

bednobs - //i am truly puzzled by this thread and all the fuss. I honestly can't see why what KL said has cause such angst? //

I entirely agree!

[andy-hughes]

tambourine - //KL has no proof for that fact & therefore his opinion, Andy //

Do you infer that IS are not dying for their cause? Really?

I think the rest of the world would concur that that is a simple fact, and not an opinion - what sort of proof are you looking for?

[Retrochic]

Actually andy , Livingstone made a Statement: your opinion was that the statement was delivered as fact, not endorsing or condoning their actions.

[Retrochic]

Ken Livingstone also said this at the time of 7/7

"This was not a terrorist attack against the mighty and powerful. It was not aimed at Presidents or Prime Minister.
‘It was aimed at ordinary, working-class Londoners, black and white, Muslim and Christian, Hindu and Jew, young and old. It was an indiscriminate attempt to slaughter, irrespective of any consideration for age, for class, for religion, or whatever.

‘That isn’t an ideology, it isn’t even a perverted faith – it is just an indiscriminate attempt at mass murder and we know what the objective is.

[Baldric]

A Cyber Handshake for sqad!

[jim360]

I can't say I see it as terribly controversial to say that the 7/7 bombers were dying for their beliefs. What I do see as controversial, if not outrageously misguided, is to argue that their beliefs were somehow legitimate (as KL appears to have done), while also omitting to say that they murdered for their beliefs too. Regardless of whether you see some truth in their motivations or not, it cannot ever justify murder or absolve the terrorists of their total guilt for their crimes. It's this last point that is causing the outrage, or at least should be. KL appears to have made that point; AH has not.