Should The Nhs Even Be Doing Tg Operations?...

[ToraToraTora]

http://news.sky.com/story/1622257/nhs-failing-transgender-people-report-says
Lot of moaning here but surely the NHS is designed for real medical issues not for those who have decided they want to change sex. If they are that desperate they can pay privately.

[ToraToraTora]

AH: "I am unliely to eve require gender re-assignment surgery, but does that give me the right to deny it to others? I would suggest that it does not. " - but would you deny some kidney transplants and spend the resources on gender swaping?

[jim360]

I wouldn't describe TTT's post as nasty so much as frustrating. I think it's worth accepting that some people just don't get this issue, and frame the question in terms of their own experiences -- hence, for example, regarding this as a "choice", which it is not. From such a position I suppose it's natural to pose such a question -- "why should the NHS fund lifestyle choices?" -- because they're starting from a false premise.

The best I can do is again stress that this is not a choice, or decision, in the sense that you are using it. People in such a position feel an almost irresistible compulsion, and are invariably less mentally healthy as long as they try to resist it. Anyone who did do this on a whim would struggle to last long.

Both the mental and physical aspects of transgender health deserve far more attention and far more respect than they are being given here.

[jim360]

I see now TTT has fallen into the trap of inventing statistics to justify his position... ah, well. I wish you would at least show some willingness to consider that maybe, just maybe, gender is far more complex than you give it credit for.

[andy-hughes]

TTT - //AH: "I am unliely to eve require gender re-assignment surgery, but does that give me the right to deny it to others? I would suggest that it does not. " - but would you deny some kidney transplants and spend the resources on gender swaping? //

I think your argument is a serious over-simplification of a complex issue.

You cannot simply say that a transgender re-assigment proceedure means that a kidney transplant is denied - funding and allocation of services simply does not work that way.

So your emotive attempt to denigrate the worthiness of one proceedure over another is not going to fly.

[jim360]

Oh, and "attention seeking sociopaths" really is nasty, and totally unjustified.

If you can't quite empathise with this because it's never something you'd do, and you just don't get why anyone would feel that way, fine. But such a comment as that is really completely unjustified and beyond the pale.

[Sqad]

Of course, the big question is, what happens to the transgender people AFTER the operations.
Are they any happier OR after a time, do their suicidal and mental problems return......a very important question that needs answering.
I do not know the answer to that question, but i bet my "bottom dollar" that one can find studies to support surgery and others that show that surgery has no advantage over counselling.
If you believe the latter, then surgery should not be performed on the already stretched NHS resources.

[pixie374]

I agree sqad. I read that both the surgery or antidepressants are equally effective. I can't see cosmetic surgery.is the answer at all.

[ToraToraTora]

so how many reassignments should we pay for? There are plenty who have done 2: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1327554/Charles-Kane-sex-change--hated-Samantha-man-Now-hes-getting-married-So-fiancee-crazy.html

[andy-hughes]

Surely each case for any surgery of any kind has to be based on the individual involved?

If I was booked in for bowel cancer, and some boffin found that statistically, people with bowel cancer stood a less that fifty per-cent chance of living more than five years after surgery, and therefore bowel cancer surgeries were being abandoned, I would feel somewhat let down, to put it mildly!

Treatment of individuals depends on their needs, not some arbitrary statistic to ascertain whether they are going to live a long and happy life - and denying them their surgery if the stats don't line up!

God forbid that we should ever run a health service on that basis.

[Mamyalynne]

Very valid point and of course not all transgenders see the scalpel as the answer, preferring to live their lives as they see fit - that is of course where other issues in society come into the frame , passports,jails and so on.

[Sqad]

A_H-----TTT is not suggesting the "abandonment" of the surgical procedure, but the free provision on the already stretched NHS.

Again.....a very good question.

[jim360]

I think such studies do exist, and surgery may not always be effective. I think the claim of the article in the original post is that the entirety of trans* care is inadequate, though, so I would argue that it's not too surprising that surgery isn't always effective, and is less about the surgery but about the lack of follow-up and preceding care. For many it does make a real and lasting difference to their well-being.

Also one should bear in mind that many such studies are often conducted by biased organisations (both for and against), so the results may be twisted to suit agendas. It is an emotive issue, but I'd be wary anyway of taking such studies as definitive at this point. The health of the individual in question should be the primary concern.

[pixie374]

Would it still be required if someone lived in isolation on a desert island? Or is it a purely social thing?

[andy-hughes]

pixie - //I can't see cosmetic surgery.is the answer at all. //

I don;t think cosmetic sugery is what is involved - that i would agree is not something the NHS should fund, if it is purely for vanity reasons.

[pixie374]

It's not for physical health reasons. Is there a difference?

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

How can you possibly equate a terminal illness situation with a none life threatening situation, such as gender re-assignment?

What we should be asking is why the demand for gender reassignment treatment is rising so rapidly, with an average of 25-30% increase in referrals each year across all clinics?

[andy-hughes]

pixie - //Would it still be required if someone lived in isolation on a desert island? Or is it a purely social thing? //

Interesting point.

A lot of people's hang-ups about their self-image are entirely down to how they believe that the world perceives them, and some people make a far better job of that than others.

It comes down to how comfortable the individual is in their own skin.

I accept that I have lost my hair, I make no attempt to hide the fact, but that does not mean I am thrilled about it. I had masses of wonderful thick curly shoulder-length hair, and would love to have it back.

But I don't magine that people think less of me because of that aspect - I know that any interest and attraction I possess is firmly rooted in my conversation, not my hairstyle.

Would I think of it less in isolation on a desert island? Probably not.

Interseting point though - food for thought.

[pixie374]

People should just be able to live however they are, there just needs to be more acceptance that people are different. I'm just not sure that moving along a transgender scale to make other people see you differently, is healthy or helpful.

[pixie374]

Maybe not, Andy. But that's still social. If you had always lived in isolation, you wouldn't even have noticed. That's just conditioning.

[youngmafbog]

Not it should not along with a host of other things it does that it should not.

The NHS has to return to life saving diseases only, if it does not it will implode and none of us will have it.

There is not a bottomless pit and something has to give.