Frightening, Sickening, But The Politicians Across Europe Are The Ones Responsible For This.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3426685/Nazi-daggers-SS-hats-hangman-s-noose-night-patrol-Soldiers-Odin-neo-Nazi-led-vigilantes-vowing-Europe-s-women-safe-migrant-sex-attacks.html

What can be done before all this becomes out of control?

[retrocop]

Fair enough.

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

/// or that I would stand back and see anyone close to me harmed in any way. ///

If that one close to you was being harmed by more than one individual, and a gang of 'Vigilantly thugs' as you chose to call them happened to appear on the scene and offered to help you out, would you refuse their help and continue to see the one close to you still being harmed?

[Togo]

I did not as a schoolboy reader of the book 'take the story on face value' as you put it. I am however likening your comparison of the adults, who choose to act against the molesters and rapists, to the children aged 6 to 12 or 13 in a book that portrays them as lawless and needing parental guidance and laws that are fair and enforced. As I said condescending. The viewpoint of one who knows best. Clever Golding wrote the tale, as a reply to the Utopian vision trotted out in Coral Island, as a reality check. The whole of Europe is going to need one. Time for mine, a bit of shopping to do then meet my son and one my brothers.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - //andy-hughes

/// or that I would stand back and see anyone close to me harmed in any way. ///

If that one close to you was being harmed by more than one individual, and a gang of 'Vigilantly thugs' as you chose to call them happened to appear on the scene and offered to help you out, would you refuse their help and continue to see the one close to you still being harmed? //

At least once in this type of debate, I am accused of being a 'utopian dreamer' - so given that 'utopian dream' situation, I would of course accept the help offered.

It being my utopian dream, we can all adjourn to the local hostelry and discuss the finer points of Marcel Proust!!

[andy-hughes]

Togo - //I did not as a schoolboy reader of the book 'take the story on face value' as you put it. I am however likening your comparison of the adults, who choose to act against the molesters and rapists, to the children aged 6 to 12 or 13 in a book that portrays them as lawless and needing parental guidance and laws that are fair and enforced. As I said condescending. The viewpoint of one who knows best.//

I did not intend to belittle your understanding of the novel - please accept my apologies if that was the impression I gave in my post.

[Togo]

No problem there ah. Just a thought though. Perhaps 'Dave' is 'Lord of the Flies'. Pigs head and all that.

[viv41]

mikey - I did not say you called me personally a racist, but it is one of your favourite words and you bandy it about all the time ......

I will not condemn these vigilantes and in my eyes they are NOT racists, but the immigrant thugs attacking innocent women ARE ....

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

/// But I have never advocated ' no action' - just that the vigilante approach is absolutely not the right action. ///

You remind me of a person who has not idea whatsoever of how to make a particular item, telling someone who has made an attempt to make it, "that's not how you make it".

[jackthehat]

Has Andy been made 'Minister for dealing with the immigrant problem' in Finland and other countries and I haven't noticed?

Otherwise why is he being instructed to come up with a 'vigilante-free' solution to the problem here and abroad?

Seeing that a particular set of circumstances is wrong does not necessarily imbue you with the power to determine the 'correct' solution...

[andy-hughes]

AOG - //You remind me of a person who has not idea whatsoever of how to make a particular item, telling someone who has made an attempt to make it, "that's not how you make it". //

I honestly cannot see a problem with being able to see a problem, but being unable to offer a workable solution to it.

I suggest that everyone - including your good self - is in that position at some time in their life.

But I also believe that being unable to produce a solution does not make you a less worthy individual than someone who does offer a solution, while simultaneously confirming that it is the wrong one.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/04/lansley-criticises-ministry-defence-serious-failure-libyan-military-training

At least we knew how to deal with the situation here, by jailing some and sending the rest home, no need for vigilantes here.

/// So serious is the disorder that police are conducting frequent patrols around the Bassingbourn base as residents of the nearby village fear more “escapes” and attacks. The base has been reinforced with further troops from 2 Scots, the Royal Highland Fusiliers, who were drafted in “to bolster security and reassure the local population” according to the Ministry of Defence (MoD). ///

[jackthehat]

That seems like a far more sensible approach, AOG.
Perhaps you could suggest it to Andy so that he can suggest it in response to those who think he ought to have a solution...?

[andy-hughes]

AOG - //At least we knew how to deal with the situation here, by jailing some and sending the rest home, no need for vigilantes here. //

And I totally applaud the stance taken, and the use of law to back it up - as you say, no need for vigilantes here.

Would that European governments took the same firm stance and sorted out their populace - immigrant and domestic.

[andy-hughes]

jackthehat - //That seems like a far more sensible approach, AOG.
Perhaps you could suggest it to Andy so that he can suggest it in response to those who think he ought to have a solution...? //

Thanks jack - I have already taken it on board!!

[andy-hughes]

Togo - //No problem there ah. Just a thought though. Perhaps 'Dave' is 'Lord of the Flies'. Pigs head and all that. //

Thanks, and on your point about Call-Me-Dave - ooo-eeerrrr!!!! (Missus!)

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

/// But I also believe that being unable to produce a solution does not make you a less worthy individual than someone who does offer a solution, while simultaneously confirming that it is the wrong one. ///

It would do if you were adrift in a sinking ship, and while your companions were making an effort to prevent the ship from sinking altogether, but you stood back with no feasible solution whatsoever except to criticise those making a particular effort.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - ///// But I also believe that being unable to produce a solution does not make you a less worthy individual than someone who does offer a solution, while simultaneously confirming that it is the wrong one. ///

It would do if you were adrift in a sinking ship, and while your companions were making an effort to prevent the ship from sinking altogether, but you stood back with no feasible solution whatsoever except to criticise those making a particular effort. //

It would - but that wouldn't happen, because that would be an immediate situation requiring immediate action - and I would be involved as far as possible.

A long way from a cyber-discussion about a particular concept - isn't it, so not really comparable I would suggest.

[anotheoldgit]

jackthehat

/// That seems like a far more sensible approach, AOG.
Perhaps you could suggest it to Andy so that he can suggest it in response to those who think he ought to have a solution...? ///

This thread is regarding the assaults on women in other European countries and the lack of action taken by the authorities there, thus causing the need for these vigilantly groups to take to the streets.

I merely entered the approach taken in England, to highlight our solution in this instance to the problem of these North African men.

No need to suggest it to andy you have already made him aware of it, as is your usual practice.

[jackthehat]

AOG - In your OP you ask... //What can be done before all this becomes out of control? //

and then provide the answer in your post of 11.46am.

So, a willing government can provide its own solution...