In or Out?

[AB Editor]

 

This poll is closed.

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

• Leave the European Union - 124 votes
• 75%
• Remain a member of the European Union - 42 votes
• 25%

See final stats

Stats until: 11:47 Thu 21st Nov 2024 (Refreshed every 5 minutes)

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[jim360]

Also, just as a clarification -- the comment about "backwards steps", "out of touch", etc, should be seen as an irritated response to posts like baz's or, to a lesser extent, jourdain's, rather than entirely serious. As I hope I've made clear in my post above, I have some respect for people who want to leave; I just don't agree overall. On the other hand, it would be nice if people who wanted to leave weren't so dismissive of the "remain" camp, either because they are young and so inexperienced/ naive; or because wanting to remain is equivalent to welcoming the Fourth Reich of fascist dictatorship and borderline treason.

[Togo]

Perhaps the younger voters are pro EU because they have all recently attended a school system that is dominated by such leanings. The longer they are away from such radicalisation, the more likely they are to think for themselves and, vote out. If you have children or grandchildren it is Your responsibility to explain the issues.

[anotheoldgit]

jim360

/// The freedom of movement is a benefit, too, travel to the EU is still fairly easy currently, and that relative freedom would be at least uncertain if we left). ///

And a benefit to the thousands of non Europeans who are occupying Europe too, that is the foremost reason we should vote to come out.

[whiskeryron]

I am really surprised that under Merkel & the 4th Reich we are not ALL by law speaking German. If Herr Hitler had won the last war that is what we would be doing. Up to now gnadige Frau Merkel has ( with French help) been ruling us Brits quite nicely.

[anotheoldgit]

whiskeryron

If a real war broke out between us, could you really see Britain winning it now?

[Gladeian]

Out

[whiskeryron]

// Avatar Image
anotheoldgit
whiskeryron

If a real war broke out between us, could you really see Britain winning it now? // NO. Not since our glorious leaders have cut the armed forces & everything else they can lay their grubby hands on.

[jim360]

Again, Togo, that's just patronising crap. I can assure you that everyone in my acquaintance is more than capable of "thinking for themselves". It just so happens that they've arrived at a different assessment from you and others here who'd rather leave.

You don't have to agree with people who want to remain in the EU, but at least do them the credit of treating their opinion with some respect.

[Canary42]

Thank you Jim for a sane and sensible set of posts in an increasing pool of unsubstantiated scaremongering and xenophobia.

[-Talbot-]

/// The freedom of movement is a benefit, too, travel to the EU is still fairly easy currently, and that relative freedom would be at least uncertain if we left). ///


Why?

[youngmafbog]

And, as usual the left (with no real argument) are out in force name calling.

If anyone is scaremongering it is the Europhiles particularly 'Dave'.

[jim360]

It's not impossible to travel to countries outside the EU when coming from the UK, it's just rather a lot more difficult. I had two trips abroad last year: one to France, which required basically nothing more than hopping on a plane with my passport in hand; and one to Russia, which required applying for a tourist visa a couple of months in advance, submitting a heck of a lot of paperwork, travelling all the way down to London for a fingerprint scan, and then filling in even more paperwork once I got to the country to validate the visa. Not to mention a lengthier passport control period. I'm not saying that the EU will definitely apply an aggressive visa-based immigration policy to travellers from the UK, but it wouldn't be totally unreasonable either for EU countries to tighten their border with the UK somewhat once it leaves.

[sunny-dave]

Interesting - when it actually comes to pushing the vote button ...

Back in 1975 my heart said "I want to be an independent Britain", but my head said "All logic says you have to stay in" - so I voted "Stay"

Now in 2016 it's the exact opposite - my heart says "Surely we can make Europe work - it has to be the right thing to do", but my head is screaming "We have to get out".

Which way will I vote? I'm tending towards "Leave", but the more unpleasant and hysterical the propaganda from the leave camp gets the more I'm likely to change to "Stay".

[bazwillrun]

"xenophobia"

"Dictionary definitions of xenophobia include: "deep-rooted, fear towards foreigners"

perhaps you should invest in a dictionary before you go bandying about words that you obviously have no idea of their meaning....

being anti eu is nothing to do with foreigners...its about being against an organisation that wants to destroy our sovereign nation and absorb us into its empire...i couldnt care less if it was apple or sky or shell etc etc i dont want to be ruled and dictated to by an organisation that i have not voted for and will never vote for...i was born and bred in england, a soveriegn nation with its own government and laws , i dont need or want an organisation that is trying to take control of my country by stealth, jackboots or otherwise...

the current "deal" DC is working on is nothing of the sort...whatever agreements are made now mean nothing as its been made pretty clear, it will be like a contract without signatures and the eussr will be able to renege in all sorts of ways and use all sorts of excuses to take back anything they "give away" now.

I really dont understand how so many people cant see the eussr for what it really is and why you seem so eager to see the end of the uk as a sovereign nation and see the country become nothing but a province dictated to from afar by a group of people crazily intent on carry through this centuries old dream of a european empire..

[mrblear]

The UK isn't really happy in the EU, is it? We didn't join at the start of the project and when it didn't go away we joined a community we hadn't help fashion under the wrong terms and had to renegotiate the terms under Mrs T.
We have more opt-outs than any other member and, with Denmark, are the only countries that have rejected the Euro (all the other countries have joined or want to join). At this moment Dave is asking for special treatment under the threat of our leaving. A lot of, I think, older Brits bitterly resent the domination of the EU by Germany.
I have been in favour of the EU since the beginning but I now reluctantly admit that we should leave and go our own way because our present stance is too embarrassing.

[janbee]

OUT... and the day before tomorrow would suit me just fine. I'm not anti Europe or anti European but I am VERY anti the corrupt EU.... and that is a totally different and very evil monster. Seek and destroy!

[Togo]

//It might just as well be argued that it's the older generation's loss of connection with the modern world that puts them out of touch in a way that encourages them to take a backwards step. Although, of course, I wouldn't dream of thinking anything like that.//

//On the other hand, it would be nice if people who wanted to leave weren't so dismissive of the "remain" camp, either because they are young and so inexperienced/ naive; or because wanting to remain is equivalent to welcoming the Fourth Reich of fascist dictatorship and borderline treason. //

Now that is what I call patronising. The older amongst us are old and out of touch, the young are inexperienced or naïve. And as for the 9:40 preamble what can one say. Any way, at least you have one acolyte.

[jim360]

As I mentioned at the top of this page, Togo, I wasn't being entirely serious when I said that -- indeed, again let me stress that although I don't agree with people who want to leave the EU I can understand where they are coming from. It seems clear from this thread and previous discussions that it doesn't seem to work the other way round.

[jim360]

mrblear: That's another consideration that I'd been wondering about. The stance the UK takes towards the EU, particularly in Cameron's renegotiation, seems to be one of trying to stay in but only while having one foot in the door at all times. Which, for me, is against the spirit of the organisation, and could well have swayed me towards voting to leave too.

[viv41]

OUT, deffo !