The Mentally Ill And The Police

[hc4361]

Police officers are on trial for the death of a man in custody, a very disturbing case.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3462460/Schizophrenic-church-caretaker-died-arrested-seven-police-officers-bound-handcuffs-leg-restraints-face-mask-left-police-cell-court-hears.html

Had the police known he was suffering from schizophrenia Thomas may have been treated very differently and got the medical help he needed.

Should people with any sort of illness that can cause aggressive behaviour be on the police database so it can quickly be flagged up? The majority of people with mental illness will never behave in such a way as to be detained by the police so would it be fair for them to be on the database?

I'm not condoning the behaviour of the police in this instance, by the way. Nobody should ever have their airways blocked.

[tinkerbell23]

Yes i personally think they should....x

[sandyRoe]

Mentally ill people are far more likely to do harm to themselves than to anyone else.
You'd think trained police officers could restrain someone without endangering their lives.

[hc4361]

Thanks, tinkerbell. It's a difficult one. I expect the local police are aware of people with this sort of mental health issue but there has to be a first episode.

The treatment of the mentally ill is appalling in the UK, with 'care in the community' often means no care at all.

[hc4361]

I agree entirely, sandy, but it is also the job of the police to stop people harming themselves in many situations.

[DaisyNonna]

Face mask?
Sounds like torture

[tinkerbell23]

There could easily be a system....they can "radio through" to find out about someone...so surley this could include any MH risks or alerts.

In my work (hospital) and im sure most hospitals the system shows any alerts...and now even offenders or frequent a&e attenders x

[RATTER15]

Sandy, I worked with adults with forensic and agression issues, all the staff were trained to restrain these people without harming them. The Police Ste not trained that way. From what I see, the Police throw them in the floor and a few pile on top in a very aggressive manner. Two very different techniques.

[ummmm]

I was trained in restraint as well and agree with Ratter.

Sandy...mentally ill people often lash out.

[RATTER15]

When we had an ex policeman join the staff, he was not permitted to use any of his Police restraint procedures on any of the residents, many of which were very violent.

[sandyRoe]

This reminds me of the black ex-pats who met a similar fate iñ police custody.
A mask seems particularly stupid in these circumstances. If the detainee vomited he'd be at great risk of choking.

[sandyRoe]

^^^ ex-para

[hc4361]

It wasn't even a mask - it was an emergency response belt which is supposed to a be 'soft' way of restraining aggressive people. It can be used on the wrists with the belt going behind the waist to restrict movement; over the body and upper arms; over the upper or lower legs. It is not meant to be used as a mask.

[ladyalex]

I am not sure that having a list of mentally ill people would help.
THere are many forms of mental illness.....which ones would you include?
A little old lady with dementia can do a lot of damage, a huge man with schizophrenia may never have raised his hand to anyone or anything.
It seems to me that the police have to get a hold of their own aggression, instead of covering it with the story that they are ' restraining people for their own safety' or 'protecting the public'.
As Ratter has said, there are many restraint techniques which are much less harmful than essentially asphyxiating people until they pass out....or die.

[hc4361]

Good point, ladyalex. I'd be interested to know what these safe restraint methods are.

[Bathsheba]

ladyalex, I agree wholeheartedly with you.

Baths
x x

[shoota]

Until you have been there and tried it for yourself you can have no idea of how difficult it is to 'restrain' a person, mentally ill or otherwise, who is in 'fight' mode. It is impossible to reproduce in a training environment.
It is also extremely unpleasant being bitten by such an individual.
I think LadyA's comments about Police curbing their aggression are unfair and unwarranted.

[RATTER15]

Shoota, I have been there and restrained mentally ill patience many many times, often 3 or 4 times a day due to the work I was doing. Never did we need to use any force outside of the techniques we are trained to use.

The methods we used "never" involved placing a person on the floor or using techniques that caused any pain or risk or injury.

[woofgang]

I get what hc is saying about having a register but surely no one should be restrained in a way which can kill them? Combinations of drink and drugs, maybe head injury or epilepsy, sometimes an infection, even poorly controlled diabetes, can all cause aggression. Even assuming that everyone had a stable, ie unchanging diagnosis, that would be a HUGE register.

[SSSid]

ACAB is probably not true. MCAB is true.
I've met a few coppers in my time. 2 of them were quite nice.

[tamborine]

Black balloon on tv depicts a 'strong & challenging' MR young man who bites & bashes his brother. There seems no reasoning when these MR sufferers have a paddy. If family cant control them there is little chance for outsiders. Maybe such sufferers should not be in mainstream positions?

https://youtu.be/WxKE-tB1ya8