Why Should Those Who Do Not Live Here Have A Say In Our Future?

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.gov.uk/government/world-location-news/did-you-know-expats-will-be-able-to-vote-in-the-eu-referendum
Forces and foreign service accepted of course but why should those who do not even want to live here have any say?

[Sqad]

naomi

\\\\Because Spain allows my public sector pensions to be paid tax free as an expat and if we (UK) vote OUT...my pensions may well be taxed in Spain.\\\

My post of 11.07.

I have tried to make sense of the arguments by the IN and OUT factions......but I cannot see any difference either would make to me as an ex Pat.....other than the above.

[Retrochic]

naomi -how about reading all sqads replies before asking a question that has already been explained.....

[sp1814]

ToraToraTora

I think they should be allowed to vote. Just because someone has left the country, doesn't mean they have cut off all ties. They may still own property in the UK, or have business ventures, stocks and shares in companies - all of which will be affected by our withdrawal or remaining.

[naomi24]

Sorry, sqad, the OP didn't really interest me so I haven't read the whole thread - just the last few posts. Thanks for answering.

[Mamyalynne]

Some examples of how many ex-pats across Europe are concerned , I believe they should be allowed to vote.


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/17/brexit-british-seeking-second-passport-europe-eu-referendum

[naomi24]

Retrochic, just spotted you there. Instead of constantly trying to create bad feeling how about minding your own business.

[Retrochic]

Many UK citizens work in the E.U., have businesses or retire after paying many many years of tax in the UK so of course they should be able to vote on a referendum that will directly effect them.

[Khandro]

naomi; It may make little difference on a personal level (there are more Europeans availing themselves of the NHS than vice-versa)
But we should not think that in the event of a Brexit the EU would simply continue as it is except being minus the UK. Leaving would create an enormous necessary shake-up and a re-structuring of this failed organization. It would empower other states to demand and seek reforms.

The EU is designed in such a way that almost no sensible proposal can be passed. If one member state has a good idea, the other 27 members demand a price for approving it until it is completely watered down. If the leader of the country protests, the response has always been; What are you going to do? Walk away? It the answer was "Yes", it would come as a profound much-needed shock.

[Noe-schitt]

You could argue that those who remain in the UK continue to pay

[Khandro]

Sqad; I don't understand how you can be avoiding paying tax in the UK on your pension before it is sent to you in Spain.

[naomi24]

Khandro, actually you have raised an interesting issue. We have a house in Spain to which we may consider retiring at some time in the dim and distant future. I can’t claim to have gone into the rules relating to pensions in any great depth, but as I understand it you either pay tax on your pension in the UK or in Spain, but you can’t avoid paying tax on your pension altogether. Of course I could be wrong. Sqad?

[Sqad]

Khandro/ naomi.

This only applies to Public Sector Pensions e.g NHS, teachers etc, which are raised in the UK and paid and "declared" in Spain.
Spanish tax allows Public sector pension for the Spanish to be paid tax free and as a concession to exPats who have similar Public sector pensions paid into Spain to also be tax free.
You can claim back tax for 4 years.......I have received a rebate in Spain for the first year............hoping for the rest.

This concession may go if UK votes to get out of the EU.

[naomi24]

Ahhh, right. Thanks Sqad.

[jim360]

If you are going to try assessing eligibility to vote based on personal impact, why not invert the question? What about all those EU citizens based in the UK but who won't be allowed to vote? It impacts on them far more than it will many, after all.* And there's a disparity anyway there in that non-UK citizens who are from the Commonwealth but living here *do* get to vote.

Or is it just that people wanting Brexit want not only as few people as possible to vote to stay, but as few as possible to be even allowed to vote that way?

[Hypognosis]

@Togo

Good quote.

Does everyone dream of becoming a benevolent dictator (as per "Everybody Wants To Rule The World")? Even if they did, the reality would be that the underlings would **** it up by lining their own pockets and playing "family favourites" and such. I have a favourite computer game which models this sort of thing.

//If that is not the vaunted (by some) EUtopia I don't know what is.//

To paraphrase Animal Farm: Some are more Franco-German than others.

@Khandro

//ex-pat//

I humbly apologise for mistaking you for a German, some weeks ago, although it might explain why you never reacted to various digs about German car hegemony, WWI/II and so forth. Mystery solved. Ta.

[Noe-schitt]

Sqad; I've got to admit to a smile when I read you pay tax in this country and get Spain to refund it. Your own offshore tax haven

[Sqad]

Noe-schitt.....I don't pay tax in the UK.

It is all paid in Spain.

[Khandro]

Hypo; Accepted, but being classed as a German wouldn't be insulting - they are great people, (except for one, Clue; her name begins with "M".

Sqad, Thanks, what you say is obviously peculiar to Spanish tax law and does not apply here.

[Hypognosis]

Paying tax on a publically funded pension is basically just causing tax to go round in circles. Unlike a perpetual motion machine, there are administration costs at every stage.

I still puzzle over why we bother to make public servants pay tax, other than to educate them in what it feels like to the rest of the population to see a fat deduction on their payslip, every month.

Oh, I forget; some of the ones with money to burn have sources of additional income (property portfolios, jobs on the side, etc.) and it simplifies the job of the tax workers to tax all 'n' thousand of them for the sake of the handfuls with 'extras' to account for. :-/

[Khandro]

Sqad; //.I don't pay tax in the UK. It is all paid in Spain.//
But I still fail to see why the inland revenue, and therefore the rest of UK taxpayers, should lose out on the tax you owe on your pension, just because you have chosen to live in Spain.
Can you (or anyone) help me with that?