ChatterBank2 mins ago
Please Tell Us The Truth, Who Should We Trust?
26 Answers
/// Christos Stylianides, the EU commissioner in charge of immigration, privately acknowledged concerns over allowing Turkey visa free access to the Schengen area countries which would allow the country’s 77million citizens to come to the UK in five years time. ///
/// Mr Cameron said provisions in the deal on visas and refugee resettlement would not apply to Britain because it is not part of the EU’s Schengen “border-free” area. ///
/// Ukip leader Nigel Farage who said he was in effect opening the door for 77 million Turks to be allowed into the UK within five years. ///
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/// Mr Cameron said provisions in the deal on visas and refugee resettlement would not apply to Britain because it is not part of the EU’s Schengen “border-free” area. ///
/// Ukip leader Nigel Farage who said he was in effect opening the door for 77 million Turks to be allowed into the UK within five years. ///
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As usual, Farage is scaremongering.
The concession on visa free travel only applies in the schengen area. The UK (and Ireland) are not part of the Schengen area. So a Turk would still need a visa to come to the UK. As far as I can tell, the concession is about travel, not permanently settling and taking jobs in the EU.
As for the Greek Cypriot chap, he is hardly going to be pleased at Turkey being given any concession. I suspect he doesn't know about Turks visiting the UK, but will be more concerned that under the agreement, Turkish passport holders from the North of Cyprus will be able to travel to his country without going through border control.
The concession on visa free travel only applies in the schengen area. The UK (and Ireland) are not part of the Schengen area. So a Turk would still need a visa to come to the UK. As far as I can tell, the concession is about travel, not permanently settling and taking jobs in the EU.
As for the Greek Cypriot chap, he is hardly going to be pleased at Turkey being given any concession. I suspect he doesn't know about Turks visiting the UK, but will be more concerned that under the agreement, Turkish passport holders from the North of Cyprus will be able to travel to his country without going through border control.
YMB,
I would not go as far as to say that I am behind Dave. Just the facts are on his side.
The Schengen Agreement was not an EC/EU initiative. The 5 original signatories agreed amongst themselves to allow free movement. The Benelux countries had abolished borders many years before. The EU finally adopted the the policy with the Schengen Convention in 1990, which formally regonised those countries as being in the Schengen area. The UK never was a party to any of those agreements and is not part of the Schengen area.
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I have tried to find a different source (than the Express) to corroborate the statement attributed to Christos Stylianides, the EU humanitarian commissioner, printed in the OP. I can fine nothing where he specifically warns that the UK will have to accept any Turks. The statement is clearly an error, so I doubt he actually did say it.
I would not go as far as to say that I am behind Dave. Just the facts are on his side.
The Schengen Agreement was not an EC/EU initiative. The 5 original signatories agreed amongst themselves to allow free movement. The Benelux countries had abolished borders many years before. The EU finally adopted the the policy with the Schengen Convention in 1990, which formally regonised those countries as being in the Schengen area. The UK never was a party to any of those agreements and is not part of the Schengen area.
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I have tried to find a different source (than the Express) to corroborate the statement attributed to Christos Stylianides, the EU humanitarian commissioner, printed in the OP. I can fine nothing where he specifically warns that the UK will have to accept any Turks. The statement is clearly an error, so I doubt he actually did say it.
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@Gromit
//I have tried to find a different source (than the Express) to corroborate the statement attributed to Christos Stylianides,//
I hate to nit-pick* but AOG's OP does actually quote the Express as saying he
//privately acknowledged concerns //
So, at best, the Express is reporting a chat, which has limits on independent witnesses (other news reporters, casual bystanders etc.) for verification. A "statement" generally entails a podium or a written press release.
Evidently, the 'private' concerns were expressed to a UKIP supporter, who went and blabbed to the press because it suits their purposes perfectly.
Incidentally, why would a Turk be concerned about his fellow citizens depopulating his country? Will the EU present the same "brain drain" effect, on Turkey, that the USA used to have on us?
Footnote: the world and its dog is only coming to the EU and UK because USA closed its doors some years ago. This doesn't get mentioned much on AB.
* okay, so I don't
//I have tried to find a different source (than the Express) to corroborate the statement attributed to Christos Stylianides,//
I hate to nit-pick* but AOG's OP does actually quote the Express as saying he
//privately acknowledged concerns //
So, at best, the Express is reporting a chat, which has limits on independent witnesses (other news reporters, casual bystanders etc.) for verification. A "statement" generally entails a podium or a written press release.
Evidently, the 'private' concerns were expressed to a UKIP supporter, who went and blabbed to the press because it suits their purposes perfectly.
Incidentally, why would a Turk be concerned about his fellow citizens depopulating his country? Will the EU present the same "brain drain" effect, on Turkey, that the USA used to have on us?
Footnote: the world and its dog is only coming to the EU and UK because USA closed its doors some years ago. This doesn't get mentioned much on AB.
* okay, so I don't
@TTG
We're at close to 70m already and you are saying it's crowded. I'd have to agree. But, at least credit the Turks with enough common sense not to turn up and put themselves at the back of the job queue.
Look, the only people you are going to scare with this "77m Turks" thing are dolités or people in the kind of job that anyone else could walk in and do, even if they could barely speak English.
If you believe your human rights to a normal family life, job and steady income are under threat, appeal to the ECHR, as soon as you get replaced. It would make a change to see them stand up for us.
We're at close to 70m already and you are saying it's crowded. I'd have to agree. But, at least credit the Turks with enough common sense not to turn up and put themselves at the back of the job queue.
Look, the only people you are going to scare with this "77m Turks" thing are dolités or people in the kind of job that anyone else could walk in and do, even if they could barely speak English.
If you believe your human rights to a normal family life, job and steady income are under threat, appeal to the ECHR, as soon as you get replaced. It would make a change to see them stand up for us.
Gromit
/// I would not go as far as to say that I am behind Dave. Just the facts are on his side. ///
I believe it was him who stated that coming out of the EU wouldn't stop migrants coming to the UK?
And has you have often pointed out under Cameron immigration has increased.
So on this one I think I would rather trust the EU commissioner in charge of immigration, also Nigel Farage.
/// I would not go as far as to say that I am behind Dave. Just the facts are on his side. ///
I believe it was him who stated that coming out of the EU wouldn't stop migrants coming to the UK?
And has you have often pointed out under Cameron immigration has increased.
So on this one I think I would rather trust the EU commissioner in charge of immigration, also Nigel Farage.
AOG,
The quote attributed to Christos Stylianide is clearly wrong as it contradicts itself. It says 77million Turks will have access to the Schengen Area, but the UK is not in the Schengen Area, so they have not rights to come here. The Express says he is the Commissioner for immigration. He isn't, he is in charge of Humanitarian Aid and Crisis Management.
The quote attributed to Christos Stylianide is clearly wrong as it contradicts itself. It says 77million Turks will have access to the Schengen Area, but the UK is not in the Schengen Area, so they have not rights to come here. The Express says he is the Commissioner for immigration. He isn't, he is in charge of Humanitarian Aid and Crisis Management.
Gromit
Thanks for that Gromit, yes it looks as if the Express has got his position wrong, as they say don't believe everything one reads, and if we can't do that who can we believe?
Regarding the Turks coming here surely regardless of the Schengen Agreement, once they become members of the EU, then we cannot stop them from coming here?
Yet another reason for getting out.
Thanks for that Gromit, yes it looks as if the Express has got his position wrong, as they say don't believe everything one reads, and if we can't do that who can we believe?
Regarding the Turks coming here surely regardless of the Schengen Agreement, once they become members of the EU, then we cannot stop them from coming here?
Yet another reason for getting out.
looks like its all starting to unravel anyway with the french and the germans wanting a vote , pretty soon there will be no Europe for Mrs Merkel to govern and she will be left will thousands of migrants that she invited.
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Dave.
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Dave.
@webbo3
I keep hearing this about Merkel "inviting" refugees but I don't buy the papers and missed that story. Don't worry, I can google for it in my own time but just wanted to say that the impression I got was that the migrants started coming her way without any prompting and she, wimpily, said "OK, guys, make yourself at home", like a nervous party host who's just been gatecrashed by a large gang and not sure what they're going to do next.
Also, it is news to me that the UK is not covered by the Schengen agreement. Isn't that the basis of how people from new entrant countries are coming here?
In other words, what is the distinction between "have EU passport" and freedom of movement, under Schengen? Is is passportless movement?
Note: I had a passport but it was never inspected (Calais bus trip) and a complete waste of money, as far as I'm concerned. Whatever I "saved" on the booze and baccy probably didn't recoup the expense. I never renewed it, once it ran out.
I keep hearing this about Merkel "inviting" refugees but I don't buy the papers and missed that story. Don't worry, I can google for it in my own time but just wanted to say that the impression I got was that the migrants started coming her way without any prompting and she, wimpily, said "OK, guys, make yourself at home", like a nervous party host who's just been gatecrashed by a large gang and not sure what they're going to do next.
Also, it is news to me that the UK is not covered by the Schengen agreement. Isn't that the basis of how people from new entrant countries are coming here?
In other words, what is the distinction between "have EU passport" and freedom of movement, under Schengen? Is is passportless movement?
Note: I had a passport but it was never inspected (Calais bus trip) and a complete waste of money, as far as I'm concerned. Whatever I "saved" on the booze and baccy probably didn't recoup the expense. I never renewed it, once it ran out.
