If Our Border Officials Can't Do Their Job, Should We Now Send In The Troops?

[anotheoldgit]

/// But, in a bizarre intervention yesterday, a human rights activist said the two groups of stowaways should not be called illegal immigrants. ///

/// Nils Muiznieks, a Council of Europe commissioner, said such language was dehumanising. ///

What planet are these sort of people on? You could not make it up.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3506111/Pictured-moment-26-migrants-including-five-children-jammed-lorry-near-Dartford-Crossing.html

[retrocop]

JTH
Currently we do not have those extra border guards and any that are recruited have to be trained and CRB vetted first. That takes time that can be ill afforded as yesterday proved. Until we have sufficient numbers of competent Border Agency personnel I maintain we should use the military as a stop gap.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

/// We seem to have inadvertantly agreed. The first country to fingerprint them is responsible for their application. Not the first country they reach. ///

You failed to mention the first country they reach in the EU.

[Togo]

Are we saying that it is more desirable, to task unarmed civilian guards with the risk of discovering possibly armed insurgents, than it is to delegate the job to trained and armed personnel.

[anotheoldgit]

jackthehat

/// Extra Border guards could have discovered yesterday's human cargo as they could a cache of arms or explosives....it wouldn't have needed any sort of military training. ///

Yes but the whole point being they didn't, plus the fact that we don't have enough border guards, and why spend more money recruiting and training more, when we already have a body of personnel who possess the expertise.

[jackthehat]

As far as I can recall the possibility of any 'stowaways' being armed and dangerous has always been there and unarmed Border guards seemed to function perfectly well....when there were sufficient numbers of them.

[jackthehat]

If you use the Military to plug the gap in the Border guard numbers.....who will plug the gap in the Military if/when it comes to the point when they need to be used in more extreme circumstances?

The para-military branch of the Girl Guides, perhaps?

[Gromit]

There are not enough border guards because the Government will not pay the cost. A soldier costs more than a civilian, so there would be even less guarding if the army were delegated to do it.

Togo, keeping refugees out and preventing an armed attack are two different problems.Having armed soldiers open every lorry might send a message, but ot wouldn't actually do anything.

[crystalgirl]

Why are people so blind,you have a camp of people with no identity right in the middle of all the trouble,the majority are from syria,in defination if you are a refugee and fleeing for your life you would head for the nearest place of safety not travel over countless borders just for safety,you must be looking for other things.
Crystal

[bazwillrun]

^
exactly..tell that to all the leftie do gooders though

use the military...wont stop em all but theyll definitely think twice knowing they are armed

[retrocop]

//jackthehat
If you use the Military to plug the gap in the Border guard numbers.....who will plug the gap in the Military if/when it comes to the point when they need to be used in more extreme circumstances? //

I saw no protestations when military personnel were used from the Royal Engineers and Royal Marines during the floods at Somerset levels and more recently in the North of England. They were deployed to make sandbag defences to try to stem the flow and all the locals were happy to see them and agreed they did a professional job.
The R.M. Commando used their LCVPs as a ferry and stranded vehicle removal unit in Somerset last year. They considered it a good training exercise.
Again. No howls of protest from ABers then either. As aog said earlier there seems to be some fear for our troops to be used in this particular emergency as a temporary measure!

[Khandro]

Donald seems to have a better grasp on the situation than our leaders and gets criticised for it by Teresa May;
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-europe-trump-idUKKCN0WQ0G1

[retrocop]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sorry Calstock. Cornwall not Somerset
http://www.itv.com/news/2014-01-15/royal-marines-help-rescue-stranded-cars-in-cornish-village-after-uk-storms/

[Gromit]

Retrocop,
Sorry, I just assume that the army had better things to do. And that their very costly training would be wasted on such a menial task.

[retrocop]

Gromit
I am not sure to what you are referring but if sitting around a barracks doing nothing is a good utilisation of trained troops then better they keep their skills up to date by doing something worthwhile and helpful. As I said ,and if you read the link, the Royal Marine Commando said they normally train doing this in foreign country's and it made a change to train in their own for a meaningful purpose.

[retrocop]

//And that their very costly training would be wasted on such a menial task.//

What was the 'menial' task you mention. Trying to stop someones house/town getting engulfed by floodwater or reuniting 40 odd people with their stranded vehicles which they wouldn't have seen again for 6 months.?

[retrocop]

//vulcan42
I don't understand why technology isn't used more in this situation. Every haulier who wants to enter the UK must have a carbon dioxide detector fitted to their vehicles wired to an alarm in the cab. When people are detected the vehicle is driven to a secured area and the stowaways removed, something else that should be removed is the fining of drivers. No troops or extra border guards needed and the cost of fitting detectors is nothing compared to being fined.//

At the risk of sounding very cynical,whilst I agree with what you have written, I can't help thinking that ,being a Romanian registered vehicle, the driver might just of been looking forward to a king's ransom had his load remain undiscovered and he had achieved the object of safely delivering his 'Spanish Peppers'!
eley

[Gromit]

Retrocop,
Not sure if you are deliberately not understanding or not.

The menial task is opening thousands of lorries everyday.
I can see the merit of assisting or replacing the fire service when needed.

There are plenty of other services being cut. If as you say we have a vast workforce sitting around a barracks all day doing nothing, then perhaps we should have them working in hospitals, looking after the elderly, or picking up litter.

[retrocop]

Sorry Gromit
How could I understand what you are saying?
If you consider the implication of vital security measures in order to protect this country and it's citizens from a 'highly probable' threat a 'menial task'
then NO I do not understand you!

[Togo]

// If as you say we have a vast workforce sitting around a barracks all day doing nothing, then perhaps we should have them working in hospitals, looking after the elderly, or picking up litter.//

Dangerous lot those poorly old folk, and the litter, well deadly it is. I though the Councils of the land were already paid to do that.

[Gromit]

Retrocop,
There is a probable threat to this country from terrorists. So what are the Government playing at leaving important security in the hands of amateurs. It is an incredible lapse that soldiers are not inspecting every cross channel ferry and every lorry coming into this country. If we have another 7/7 incident we know who to blame.