How Can 4 Year Olds Know About A List Of 20+ "genders"...

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pupils-young-four-asked-choose-7792180
More lunacy from teachers.

[youngmafbog]

It matters not how the 'bully' is 'educated' the fact of the matter is many will be bought up that way and so bullying will ensure. 4 years old is rediculous, it's almost like some are trying to 'persuade' kids to go in a particular direction to meet their own views too.

[mushroom25]

//You'd be amazed how uninterested children are if they aren't told it's something to be seen as different or abnormal. //

actually Jim, if you've not worked in a school, you may be surprised how much kids work out for themselves as being different, and how the tiniest "difference" is cause for the ganging up on that difference. it could just be that the parents are poor and the animal logo on the kids' fake top faces the wrong way; or something more fundamental. but make no mistake, kids can be cruel beggars if left to their own devices.

[Gromit]

Thanks Retrocop,
Then Tory MP Andrew Bridgen is also an idiot because the Brighton schools are not prompting gender swaps. The letter is from the local aurhority, not the schools or teachers.
It is leaping to conclusions to say the information supplied by parents will be used to help the children change genders (how is that possible?), though I am at a loss to what use it is at all. Probably just a box ticking exercise to say they they are helping 'diversity' when in fact they are just paying lip service.

[ToraToraTora]

jim: "In point of fact, most of the "bullying and misery" such children experience is the product of children listening to parents who object to that sort of thing. You'd be amazed how uninterested children are if they aren't told it's something to be seen as different or abnormal. " - C0bblers, children are cruel and they single out those that are different, always have always will, send a boy to school in a dress and see what happens. No amount of right on trendy reasoning can change the basic behaviour of children.

[ToraToraTora]

YMB/Mushroom crossed posts!

[retrocop]

YMF
//4 years old is rediculous, it's almost like some are trying to 'persuade' kids to go in a particular direction to meet their own views too.//

I agree with you there. Brighton is the gay capital of the South and as a city comes 2nd to London with HIV patients and rising.
I would imagine a fair proportion of the council is gay or has gender identity problems themselves so expect likewise of everyone else in the city.

[jim360]

Children can be cruel, for sure. Some can be kind, too, and understanding. It depends rather on their upbringing; and at least you can expect them to grow out of it reasonably quickly.

And, either way, it is no reason at all for telling those who don't "conform" that they should hide who they are just to fit in with society's rigid expectations.

[sp1814]

So we've established that this isn't 'more lunacy from teachers', right?

Additionally, we can surmise that the vast majority of parents will simply reply 'boy' or 'girl', because the vast majority of kids identify with their biological gender.

However, a small number of children will go through a phase of identifying with the opposite gender, and this question will help parents and schools in managing the situation.

That's what it sounds like to me.

[youngmafbog]

Yep, and in the process those small number will get singled out by the others because their parents consider them 'different'

I still maintain 4 years old is too young.

[Gromit]

From the 'Sun'.

// Cllr Emma Daniel, head of Brighton’s equalities committee, said: “We have inserted the additional text about gender identity in response to calls from families, young people and schools to show an inclusive approach.

She added: “We will review this to see whether we can make it clearer that we consider discussions around gender identity to be an option for parents rather than an obligation.” //

[viv41]

I agree with you Baths and if I receive one of these when my son starts school, it will be ripped up and put straight in the bin !!

[jim360]

That's your choice, viv, so long as it's not a choice that's taken away from the few kids for whom it *will* matter.

People talk about "lives of misery" if it's something that they are open about from an early age. I can assure you that being close and secretive about it is just as destructive, and probably more so.

[Old_Geezer]

It's ridiculous to ask kids that young to choose and settle on what they are going to feel like later in life. Even if they think they know, their feelings may change; and I don't see the use of the information anyway. Just gratuitous curiosity maybe, from those who are in a position of responsibility ?

In truth there is only two genders anyway, and some who, for reasons not yet clear, find their mind does not accept the gender they are. Why saddle kids with that sort of complex instead of letting them play and enjoy what will be a fleeting enough period of their life ?

[naomi24]

//Earlier this year the council sparked controversy when it sent pupils at Blatchington Mill School in Hove a gender survey with 25 options to choose from including girl and boy, “genderqueer”, “tri-gender” and“gender fluid”.//

I’m wondering if the four year olds are being asked to choose from a similar list of options? I have no idea what those terms mean – and I’m just a bit older than four. People who come up with these potty schemes are messing with children’s minds. Let children be children!

[naomi24]

viv, //if I receive one of these when my son starts school, it will be ripped up and put straight in the bin !! //

Mine wouldn't. It would go back, along with my explicit thoughts, to whoever sent it. Idiots!

[jim360]

If the child doesn't ask about it and is happy in their identity, then there is no problem. And this is what happens in the majority of cases anyway, for sure, there is no point in denying that. Where the problem emerges is for a minority of cases, and it's important to offer support to those children and not practice some sort of conspiracy of silence, to hush it up. No child should be forced to be something they are not. By extension, that of course means that any parent who sends a boy to school in a dress because *they* want that, and not the child, deserves condemnation. It is wrong, in either direction, to impose identities on people that they are not happy with.

Perhaps 4 is too young, but this letter was sent to the parents not the children, so it should be at the discretion of parents to discuss it or not.

[Mamyalynne]

sp is right - the majority of parents will tick the boxes marked male or female. It seems that this form now gives them the opportunity to be open about anything they may have concerns about or be unsure about re their child.

Children can indeed be cruel at times and one doesn't have to search too far to see where those children get their attitudes from in the first instance, long before peer pressure plays a role.

Openness here is the key.

[Mamyalynne]

I think we may be discussing two different forms here , have any of the papers reproduced the form aimed at parents of four year olds?

[naomi24]

Jim, //If the child doesn't ask about it and is happy in their identity, then there is no problem.//

In that case there's no reason to send this form out to all children. The time to deal with confusion over identity is when a child questions it.

[jim360]

But it wasn't sent to the children, it went to the parents -- who were then encouraged to ask their children about it, but (presumably) not obliged to. The form that *was* given directly to children, at Blatchington Mill School, was given only to children aged 11 or older, which I think people would see at least as somewhat more reasonable.