News1 min ago
Another 28 Migrants For Us To Look After....
unless this is another spoof paper story?
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//Togo, As I said immigration is a problem and it need a solution, but UK in or out of the EU has no effect on it. We should stop lumping the two together. //
Where do they gain entry? Australia? America? Norway even? Iceland? Mars? Go on I give up. It cant be Eurapes Schengen zone surely. The final peevish act of a peevish continent on the British people who have defied them and their wicked policies for centuries. Remember the original Celts and Anglo Saxons moved from mainland Europe to escape just such unaccountable social restrictions centuries ago. That feeling still burns in all true Brits.
Where do they gain entry? Australia? America? Norway even? Iceland? Mars? Go on I give up. It cant be Eurapes Schengen zone surely. The final peevish act of a peevish continent on the British people who have defied them and their wicked policies for centuries. Remember the original Celts and Anglo Saxons moved from mainland Europe to escape just such unaccountable social restrictions centuries ago. That feeling still burns in all true Brits.
Jourdain, the first thing they do is destroy all ID documents, that ensures they can never be sent back as there is no proof as to where they came from.
If we leave the EU but remain in the EEA which is the intention of 'Leave' we still have abide by the full 'right to work' for every one from the EEA area. Even 'leave' admit that. They just say ''we will be able to negotiate a special agreement'' .Anyone who thinks that the EU / EEA is going to negotiate a special agreement that restricts access to the UK labour market while allowing free access for our goods and services needs to think again.
If we leave the EU but remain in the EEA which is the intention of 'Leave' we still have abide by the full 'right to work' for every one from the EEA area. Even 'leave' admit that. They just say ''we will be able to negotiate a special agreement'' .Anyone who thinks that the EU / EEA is going to negotiate a special agreement that restricts access to the UK labour market while allowing free access for our goods and services needs to think again.
I think we need to realise that leaving the EU will not stop this happening. There are many things a “Brexit” will achieve (and nobody could be more in favour of us leaving than me) but this is not one of them. Illegal migrants will continue to roam across mainland Europe (courtesy of the EU’s Schengen Agreement) and those with the UK as their destination of choice will still mass at the Channel ports.
There is a perfectly sound mechanism for dealing with this. The EU’s own “Dublin Agreement” determines that asylum seekers entering the EU must be processed in the first EU country they arrive in (and it only applies to asylum seekers, not economic migrants – they are illegal immigrants). This is virtually never the UK and rarely is it France. Those caught beyond that first country lose their right to asylum and can be returned to the country they last came from. For the 28 in this case it is clear and provable that they came from France so they should be returned there. But the UK does not do so. It will be no more or less likely to do so should we leave the EU (then it will have to rely on the UN Convention on the treatment of refugees, which says much the same). There is simply no political will for it.
“Well if we are outside the EU we certainly won't have any influence on the Schengen agreement.”
We don’t have any influence on it (or anything else the EU Commission comes up with) now. The UK’s MEPs have only 10% of the votes in the EU Parliament. They are consistently outvoted in that forum and in any case MEPs cannot propose legislation. Only the (unelected) EU Commission can do that. Even if every one of the 700-odd MEPs opposed Schengen, unless the Commission agreed to modify or scrap it, it will remain.
“France has already said that if we leave the EU they are likely to take the easy option and dump the Calais immigrants 'over the border' out of the EU and into the UK. Remember the UK border is only at Calais due to an agreement between UK and France, as soon as we are out of the EU that border will be back to Dover as a non EU country can not have a border inside the EU! Think about it!”
They’ve said no such thing, Eddie, and as I have explained at least twice in the past they are most unlikely to do so. The “Le Touquet” agreement is between the UK and France and has nothing to do with the EU. The “Border” between the UK and France at that point is not in Calais. It is at the mid-point of the Straits of Dover. The agreement does not move the border. It provides for the juxtaposition of border controls in the two countries and is as valuable to France (particularly the Port of Calais) as it is to the UK. I have thought about it, Eddie, and established the facts instead of relying on conjecture.
“But if we find some illegals in the UK I don't see how it can just be a simple as 'send them back to France' unless they're (or should it be 'there' on this thread) carrying a French passport (which is very unlikely).”
See above (Dublin Agreement and UN Convention on treatment of refugees).
“If we leave the EU but remain in the EEA which is the intention of 'Leave'…”
Who told you that, Eddie? The “Leave” campaign has made no pronouncements on what, if any, model the UK might adopt should it leave the EU. The campaign recognises that one of the major drawbacks for the UK is that it cannot control who settles here from the EU. That same campaign is scarcely likely to suggest we leave one organisation only to remain part of an essentially identical one. And in any case, the free movement of people entitled to be in the EU has nothing to do with this question. But I can understand your confusion Eddie because in this one thread alone you have suggested that (a) the UK leaving the EU will have no influence on illegal immigrants arriving here (which it won’t) but (b) if we leave the problem will get worse because France will withdraw from the “Le Touquet” agreement (which they won’t). You can’t have it both ways.
There is a perfectly sound mechanism for dealing with this. The EU’s own “Dublin Agreement” determines that asylum seekers entering the EU must be processed in the first EU country they arrive in (and it only applies to asylum seekers, not economic migrants – they are illegal immigrants). This is virtually never the UK and rarely is it France. Those caught beyond that first country lose their right to asylum and can be returned to the country they last came from. For the 28 in this case it is clear and provable that they came from France so they should be returned there. But the UK does not do so. It will be no more or less likely to do so should we leave the EU (then it will have to rely on the UN Convention on the treatment of refugees, which says much the same). There is simply no political will for it.
“Well if we are outside the EU we certainly won't have any influence on the Schengen agreement.”
We don’t have any influence on it (or anything else the EU Commission comes up with) now. The UK’s MEPs have only 10% of the votes in the EU Parliament. They are consistently outvoted in that forum and in any case MEPs cannot propose legislation. Only the (unelected) EU Commission can do that. Even if every one of the 700-odd MEPs opposed Schengen, unless the Commission agreed to modify or scrap it, it will remain.
“France has already said that if we leave the EU they are likely to take the easy option and dump the Calais immigrants 'over the border' out of the EU and into the UK. Remember the UK border is only at Calais due to an agreement between UK and France, as soon as we are out of the EU that border will be back to Dover as a non EU country can not have a border inside the EU! Think about it!”
They’ve said no such thing, Eddie, and as I have explained at least twice in the past they are most unlikely to do so. The “Le Touquet” agreement is between the UK and France and has nothing to do with the EU. The “Border” between the UK and France at that point is not in Calais. It is at the mid-point of the Straits of Dover. The agreement does not move the border. It provides for the juxtaposition of border controls in the two countries and is as valuable to France (particularly the Port of Calais) as it is to the UK. I have thought about it, Eddie, and established the facts instead of relying on conjecture.
“But if we find some illegals in the UK I don't see how it can just be a simple as 'send them back to France' unless they're (or should it be 'there' on this thread) carrying a French passport (which is very unlikely).”
See above (Dublin Agreement and UN Convention on treatment of refugees).
“If we leave the EU but remain in the EEA which is the intention of 'Leave'…”
Who told you that, Eddie? The “Leave” campaign has made no pronouncements on what, if any, model the UK might adopt should it leave the EU. The campaign recognises that one of the major drawbacks for the UK is that it cannot control who settles here from the EU. That same campaign is scarcely likely to suggest we leave one organisation only to remain part of an essentially identical one. And in any case, the free movement of people entitled to be in the EU has nothing to do with this question. But I can understand your confusion Eddie because in this one thread alone you have suggested that (a) the UK leaving the EU will have no influence on illegal immigrants arriving here (which it won’t) but (b) if we leave the problem will get worse because France will withdraw from the “Le Touquet” agreement (which they won’t). You can’t have it both ways.
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