These Mobs Of Lefties Are Not Representative Of Our Young.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3658671/This-vote-doesn-t-represent-younger-generation-live-consequences-Millennials-fury-baby-boomers-voting-Britain-EU.html

[murraymints]

granted..

[webbo3]

I am not British I am European, if she doesn't know that Europe is a continent then I am glad she didn't get the chance to vote.

And perhaps she should go and live in "Europe", I hear the youth in Greece have great job prospects.


Dave.

[jim360]

"One doesn't expect thanks from the youth when one saves them from themselves..."

Sigh... this is being framed exactly as expected depending on which side of the debate you were on. There would have been exactly as much noise and complaint had the positions been reversed -- and, I suspect, many people know that really. Or would you have thanked the winning Remain people for "saving us from ourselves", and been so pleased that the people you've spent ages denouncing as anti-British traitors elected to vote the way they did? Would none of you have thought that maybe a second referendum was a good idea? Remember that Farage was already calling for a second referendum if it was close enough the first time (and he was on the losing side). To exactly nobody's surprise, he's not quite so interested in holding a second referendum after a close result when he was on the winning side...


For the record, I don't think there should be a second referendum. I don't think the result should be ignored. I do think it was a fine example of democracy. If this result is illegitimate then so has been the result of pretty much every other election in history. It's a matter of record on AB that I wanted this referendum in the first place, and it would be pretty pathetic if that only applied as long as I was on the winning side.

I *am* sad about how it's gone. How couldn't I be? I genuinely felt, as strongly as you felt the opposite, that Britain's, and for that matter Europe's, future was best-served by remaining inside the EU. It follows that the future that awaits us is one that I didn't want, don't look forward to, and feel is going to be worse than the one I had chosen. I'm angry, too. Angry at all those people whose job it was to put the case for remaining in a strong way, and failed so signally to do so. Angry at how what was meant to be a vote about our relationship with the EU and Europe became so focused on our own political issues -- the decades-old divides in the Tory party and the ineptness of the Labour leadership. I'm seriously angry at those people who voted to Leave the EU and have then admitted that they did so only because they didn't think Leave was going to win, but it would be nice to send a message to Cameron. I guess as well there's some internal anger, because although I thought Brexit was a real possibility I didn't do more to try and persuade people to vote against it; others I know feel this more acutely because, in the words of one friend:

"I suppose for me I'm disappointed in my own arrogance that surrounded the whole debate. I just kinda assumed the country would [vote for the status quo] when it came down to it."

With such anger, disappointment, despair, sadness, fear, and the like, is it so surprising that some people are lashing out? The demographic divide is hard to ignore: by and large, the older generation has voted for a future that it isn't necessarily going to be able to enjoy, and is the opposite future to the one that the younger generation overwhelmingly preferred.

We'll never know which future is better because we can only live this one now, so the chances of thanking you about it later are pretty negligible actually. That inverted arrogance of some on the Leave camp also makes me angry. You have no idea if we'll thank you either. And if, in the event, it turns out that the future is less wonderful than it was promised to be... well , the ones who didn't choose it will have to regret it for you.

For now, the anger and bitterness that inevitably follows a shocking and painful defeat is going to cloud many people's perspectives, not least my own. After it's passed, we'll have to make the future the country has chosen work. That will require bridging the divides, not accentuating them. One way to start would be to stop jumping at young people every time they show passion for a cause they genuinely believed in and has been so suddenly snatched from them.

[ladybirder]

No Jim I wouldn't have kicked off had Brexit lost. That question was asked on a thread here, i.e. would we accept the result if it was close. I said then, as did lots of others (I think) that I would be disappointed but that I would accept it. IMO that is the right thing to do, if you lose you lose, if you win you win and that's it.

[ummmm]

In an ideal world, LB. Certain righters would have been out in force, imo.

[ToraToraTora]

Jim, I have the utmost respect for you, can you not see why we voted to leave?

[jourdain2]

They will eventually get the hang of it and understand that we have not all been overtaken by some strange, mind-altering virus. To be honest, and sensible, looking at the reaction - it is toddler tantrums writ large; they are the spoilt generation. Guys, get real, please, you can't always have what you want and you need to be challenged in order to discover what you are really capable of. As we were. :)

I'm being nice - a lot of people just say 'Grow up!'.

[jourdain2]

Jim - I also respect you, but please try just a little harder to understand that we voted as we did for you and the next generation. It is good to have challenges, fights even, and to dig down deep. I am so proud to have helped to give you, my children and my grandchildren a country of their own again - one that you can shape and use as you wish - not as someone else says and directs you to. That is why I have bust a gut, posters, meetings etc. - didn't do it for me.

Scientific arrangements and conferences will continue - ways will be found. :)

[ToraToraTora]

jim; "I'm angry, too. Angry at all those people whose job it was to put the case for remaining in a strong way, and failed so signally to do so. " - The problem is jim that they failed to tell us why it is good for Britain to be in the EU, the things that the EUphiles think are good are not what the grass roots public think are good, and threats and fear mongering never work on the British.

[jim360]

TTT -- thanks for that, I hope we'll be able to remember that even as we argue passionately with each other for ages to come. In the meantime, yes, you are right that the leaders of the Remain campaign seemed mostly determined to explain that being in the EU was good because it would avoid lots of bad things, rather than for itself. However in fairness sometimes even putting a positive case for various things failed to gain any interest. I can remember putting forward the case for remaining in the EU as it was beneficial for scientific research and collaboration, a case that was universally rejected on this site. I won't rehash it now, there's no point, and anyway this was bigger than AB obviously. I think Remain leaders in the public campaign decided early on that positivism would not sell as well as doom-mongering. In that, they were obviously utterly mistaken that this would work. We're now going to find out how right some of the warnings were.

* * * *

jourdain -- I can respect that you, and many others, voted the way you did for the best of intentions. I'm not angry at you for doing what you thought was right, although that doesn't change the fact that I disagree with your decision. The people who *** me off are those who have voted for dishonest reasons. I seriously hope that they are so few in number as to not have mattered really, but knowing that they exist should anger everybody.

Before the result, I expressed a hope that the result shouldn't be decided by apathy. In that, at least, I got my wish, as the turnout was higher than any election since 1992. I hope those who voted to leave did so for the same reasons you did, but I don't think we can count on everyone being as genuine as you were.

Anyway, as I said, I'm angry. I still am. It's going to colour my reaction to this for some time.

[ToraToraTora]

" I can remember putting forward the case for remaining in the EU as it was beneficial for scientific research and collaboration, a case that was universally rejected on this site" - The problem is jim that remain had to find things that you could not also do from outside the EU. Cooperation and deals are always possible no need to surrender sovereignty to work together. Thus the cupboard was bare, so all that was left was fear and threats.

[jim360]

It depends on the standards in question. My own position has always been not that continued membership of the EU is essential, merely preferable. I don't know if that case, made more widely, would have worked either, but at least it would have been more accurate.