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ChatterBank1 min ago
Ukip Woes.
In its bid to compete directly with Labour for the most shambolic leadership contest, UKIP look set to split as well.
Farage and his donor are hinting at a new party. Steven Woolfe who missed the deadline to submit his leader application (but that is somehow everyone elses fault) is scathing at the NEC. Suzanne Evans remains suspended so cannot stand. Meanwhile they have Tory MP who does not agree with any UKIP policies.
Is the best idea to rip it all up and start again.
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Farage and his donor are hinting at a new party. Steven Woolfe who missed the deadline to submit his leader application (but that is somehow everyone elses fault) is scathing at the NEC. Suzanne Evans remains suspended so cannot stand. Meanwhile they have Tory MP who does not agree with any UKIP policies.
Is the best idea to rip it all up and start again.
http://
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If UKIP are a shower, Labour are the absolute deluge! Even David Cameron raised a laugh from me when on the day he gave his resignation speech he advised the new Labour MP (name escapes me) being sworn in 'to leave her mobile phone switched on as she may be in the Shadow Cabinet by the end of the day".
Chilli......
Labour......232 MPs
UKIP.........1 MP
http://
Labour......232 MPs
UKIP.........1 MP
http://
2015 General Election.
Lab 9.3 Million votes 232 Seats 30% of the Vote
SNP 3.9 Million votes 56 Seats 12% of the Vote
UKIP 1.4 Million Votes I Seat 4.7% of the Vote
So UKIP Need 1.4m votes to secure each seat. SNP Need 69,642 votes for each seat, and Labour Need 40,086 for each seat. Time for proportional representation do you not think. Incidently Conservative Party Needed 34,243 Votes for each seat. That will wake the lefties up.
Lab 9.3 Million votes 232 Seats 30% of the Vote
SNP 3.9 Million votes 56 Seats 12% of the Vote
UKIP 1.4 Million Votes I Seat 4.7% of the Vote
So UKIP Need 1.4m votes to secure each seat. SNP Need 69,642 votes for each seat, and Labour Need 40,086 for each seat. Time for proportional representation do you not think. Incidently Conservative Party Needed 34,243 Votes for each seat. That will wake the lefties up.
No not time for PR: ever. Time for UKIP candidates in individual constituencies to make the final push to get themselves a majority of the local vote though. Given they seem to be garnering so munch support anyway, that ought not be a massive task. They would benefit from a Nige-like individual in the top job, that's for sure, but it ought not not be a necessity. After all, they only have to have political sway until Britain's government has finally made good on the referendum result.
Labour are the real shower. They are an established party that is being ripped apart when they should be holding the Tories to account.
UKIP is a relatively new party so it is hardly surprising they are going through something like this. UKIP's main policy has been achieved. They do need to reinvent themselves if they wish to remain the the political shpere.
UKIP is a relatively new party so it is hardly surprising they are going through something like this. UKIP's main policy has been achieved. They do need to reinvent themselves if they wish to remain the the political shpere.
Proportional representation is all very well but, in a milieu of a government with only a slim majority against a strong opposition, you effectively hand a casting vote to the minority party in almost all split-decision situations.
This means that the public needs to be *extremely well versed* in how UKIP, SNP, Plaid and the Ulster parties stand on aspects of the sitting government's manifesto program.
Paying attention to all the parties which you don't actually vote for is going to be tiresome, as well as counter-intuitive.
Meanwhile fans of Borgen will recall the required horse-trading (ministerial positions in return for coalition support) required to achieve a majority, in a state with 6 or 7 parties. Adoption of PR will surely encourage new ones to set themselves up, for a piece of the action.
Our own coalition experience, "Tory policies but with the handbrake on" was, erm, educational but my abiding memory was that I had half a mind to vote Lib-Dem because I'd never tried them yet. I didn't follow through but I never envisaged them coalescing with the Tories, having distant memory of a Lib-Lab pact, from the 70s. I now regard them as total sell-outs and cannot, in all conscience, trust them with my vote in future. If I want Tory policy, I'll vote Tory.
This means that the public needs to be *extremely well versed* in how UKIP, SNP, Plaid and the Ulster parties stand on aspects of the sitting government's manifesto program.
Paying attention to all the parties which you don't actually vote for is going to be tiresome, as well as counter-intuitive.
Meanwhile fans of Borgen will recall the required horse-trading (ministerial positions in return for coalition support) required to achieve a majority, in a state with 6 or 7 parties. Adoption of PR will surely encourage new ones to set themselves up, for a piece of the action.
Our own coalition experience, "Tory policies but with the handbrake on" was, erm, educational but my abiding memory was that I had half a mind to vote Lib-Dem because I'd never tried them yet. I didn't follow through but I never envisaged them coalescing with the Tories, having distant memory of a Lib-Lab pact, from the 70s. I now regard them as total sell-outs and cannot, in all conscience, trust them with my vote in future. If I want Tory policy, I'll vote Tory.
@O_G
//Time for UKIP candidates in individual constituencies to make the final push to get themselves a majority of the local vote though. //
What went wrong in Thanet North (or whatever it was that Farage contested)?
Thinking about the election night UK map, the Labour vote is strong in urban areas, the Tory vote is strong in the shires. The ideal specification for a UKIP seat would have to be a half-and-half (to split the Tory/Labour evenly) and, crucially, have suffered some kind of *perceived* negative impact, from migration.
There are plenty of places which fail on that last crucial point. Yet there are puzzles, like Wales voting out, despite few immigrants and (possibly) a lot of inward investment in the valleys and farm subsidies in the rural areas.
Disaffection with both Tory and Labour might have been behind that, so that is the ground that UKIP should be capitalising on. Odd to do doorstepping just now but, if permissable under election rules, I think they should be doing that now, while minds are still in a mood to be swayed.
//Time for UKIP candidates in individual constituencies to make the final push to get themselves a majority of the local vote though. //
What went wrong in Thanet North (or whatever it was that Farage contested)?
Thinking about the election night UK map, the Labour vote is strong in urban areas, the Tory vote is strong in the shires. The ideal specification for a UKIP seat would have to be a half-and-half (to split the Tory/Labour evenly) and, crucially, have suffered some kind of *perceived* negative impact, from migration.
There are plenty of places which fail on that last crucial point. Yet there are puzzles, like Wales voting out, despite few immigrants and (possibly) a lot of inward investment in the valleys and farm subsidies in the rural areas.
Disaffection with both Tory and Labour might have been behind that, so that is the ground that UKIP should be capitalising on. Odd to do doorstepping just now but, if permissable under election rules, I think they should be doing that now, while minds are still in a mood to be swayed.
In the 2015 Election, the following votes were cast :::
SNP.....1,454,436 votes....56 MPs
Plaid Cymru....181, 704 votes, 3 seats
"Share" of the vote is meaningless....who cares ? ....its bums on House of Commons seats that matter.
If the SNP and PC can achieve that kind of result without PR, why should we need to make a special case for UKIP ?
Despite the excuses doled out by the Friends of UKIP on AB, the bottom line is that they are just not popular enough.
And UKIP is not a new Party...it was founded in 1993.
The difficulty with these UKIP cats, is that they have no intention of being herded anywhere.
If Farage had decided to fight a 20-30 well chosen seats, he might have been more successful. Instead he choose to show how UKIP was "going to break the mould of UK Politics, and on that he failed miserably.
SNP.....1,454,436 votes....56 MPs
Plaid Cymru....181, 704 votes, 3 seats
"Share" of the vote is meaningless....who cares ? ....its bums on House of Commons seats that matter.
If the SNP and PC can achieve that kind of result without PR, why should we need to make a special case for UKIP ?
Despite the excuses doled out by the Friends of UKIP on AB, the bottom line is that they are just not popular enough.
And UKIP is not a new Party...it was founded in 1993.
The difficulty with these UKIP cats, is that they have no intention of being herded anywhere.
If Farage had decided to fight a 20-30 well chosen seats, he might have been more successful. Instead he choose to show how UKIP was "going to break the mould of UK Politics, and on that he failed miserably.
Parties that play on people's disaffection, as UKIP plainly do, are doomed, as they are building in shifting sand. Once they get a sniff of power they become the very people they warned their voters about. Look at the LibDems: they lost all the people who only ever voted for them at national elections because they weren't labour or Tory. Of course there's a lot more too then than that and they are v strong in local elections still, but they have, temporarily at least, lost the national protest vote
ichkeria....the LibDems lost all that support because they decided to sup with the devil in 2010.
But they forgot that in order to sup with the devil, you need an awfully long spoon. Their fate was sealed the day that Clegg and Cameron appeared together in the Rose Garden of Number Ten, holding hands.
But they forgot that in order to sup with the devil, you need an awfully long spoon. Their fate was sealed the day that Clegg and Cameron appeared together in the Rose Garden of Number Ten, holding hands.
Well that was my point Mikey although they might have suffered after a labour coalition too. I'm not really comparing UKIP with the LibDems: only the principle of the protest vote both attract. UKIP tho are bankrupt when it comes to sensible policies (and almost so when it comes to sensible people! Ironically the favourite to lead them now is one of the comparatively same ones)
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