Seven Day Nhs Pledge Faces 'staff Shortages'

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37161480

A case of the bleeding obvious, if ever there was !

[youngmafbog]

No, it does not have to be the bleeding obvious.

The main problem here is the resistance to a 'Tory' idea, both from the mainly left wing NHS managers and many of the staff.

The service is in a shamables at the moment, if it was a private company most of the managers would be fired for incompetence.

The starting point is to slim the service at non peak periods through the week to bolster it at the weekend. This would utilize the same number of staff but over a longer time period.

[ToraToraTora]

what is bleedin obvious is that there is bilions spent on work shy scum that should be used elsewhere, like the NHS for example. Also the NHS needs to get shot of several layers of admin and make itself efficient.

[Quizmonster]

The main "Tory" idea about the NHS was that there shouldn't be one!

[bazwillrun]

What is also bleedin' obvious is the amount of people that go to doctors, A & E etc with insignificant complaints, that dont require any form of specialist treatment and will heal/go by themselves that increase waiting times and reduce the manpower for things where they are needed........

[ToraToraTora]

not from me QM, I think the principle of the NHS is sound, the operation of often leaves a lot to be desired but it is the correct and civilized way to provide health care for a nation. I just wish they'd manage it properly but that's public sector management for you.

[woofgang]

I think that part of the problem, as the article say is that no one has drawn up a template of what a 7 day service actually looks like or needs....a small example from my own experience..Its nine years ago now that there was a major upheaval in NHS pay. As part of this, the days and times over which we could be required to work our hours were extended...we still worked the same number of hours a week but could be asked to work on saturday mornings and longer into the evening as a part of the normal working day instead of being able to refuse the request and, if we agreed to work, being paid at an enhanced rate. In return recompense for this we were given a better than average pay rise, although this was mitigated by the rest of the package which reassessed jobs and put many of us on a pay freeze as being overpaid.
The reason for this (we were told) is that the profession I was in undertook much of the more complicated discharge planning and implementation work which stopped at evenings and weekends because we weren’t there. Also fair enough you’d think...except that discharge planning and implementation relied heavily on provision of care and equipment supplied by social services....whose non urgent services didn’t work evenings and weekends!
We were told to plan our staff work schedule to cover the extended hours (I managed the service) and it wasn’t until we pointed out that this would result in much thumb twiddling during the extended hours and much less work happening during the normal hours that the penny dropped!

[youngmafbog]

//The main "Tory" idea about the NHS was that there shouldn't be one!//

Please guide me to the Tory's manifesto statement saying this. I will immediately write to my MP as I am pretty sure it does not reflect the view of the vast majority of Tory voters.

[naomi24]

//The main "Tory" idea about the NHS was that there shouldn't be one!//

It really is time that such antiquated notions were put out to grass.

[Quizmonster]

Perhaps, YMB and Naomi, you didn't notice that I used the verb 'was' at 08.56, despite the fact that you quoted it. I was referring to the very foundation of the NHS in the late 1940s.
It may be worth pointing out that even the doctors back then were not in favour either, at least until - in order to shut them up - Nye Bevan (quote) "stuffed their mouths with gold."

[Quizmonster]

Sorry, TTT, I meant to include above a comment agreeing with what you had to say at 09.00. Certainly, the modern NHS requires massive reorganisation. Cheers.

[naomi24]

Quizmonster, ah right. You were talking history. Irrelevant now of course, but thank you for clarifying.

[whiskeryron]

Am I correct in thinking that the Tory ideal for the NHS would be an American type of Health Insurance taken out by everyone who can afford it & the poor to be treated by the state where possible ?

[youngmafbog]

So why put a quote if it referred to feelings 70 years ago and people that are most likely dead?

We all know what you were trying to do, no mater how you now try and dress it up.

[youngmafbog]

That is my ideal ron (I would make companies pay and give tax releif), I dont think it is grass root Tory thinking though.

[ToraToraTora]

"Am I correct in thinking that the Tory ideal for the NHS would be an American type of Health Insurance taken out by everyone who can afford it & the poor to be treated by the state where possible ? " - no

[Quizmonster]

It's generally considered standard when "talking history" to use past tense verbs!
In addition, there are many who believe that there are Tories today who would be more than glad to see the back of the NHS, just as there were Tories 70 years ago who never wanted it to get off the ground!

[Peter Pedant]

// This would utilize the same number of staff but over a longer time period.// YMF

I think you have got just there YMF - the same amount of work at different times - no more are treated - just the same number but some at the week ends

I have to say I thought J Hunt had the mandarins behind him before he imposed the contract - like you know Plan A - but it seems there was no Plan A ( or B or C etc ) -

55% of year 3 ( you need them to do the work by the way ) have left the health service and he appears to have said - never mind we will get Romanians from Europe for peanuts! without recollecting that.... we brexited

when this was floated in Manchester - the doctor administrator said triumphantly - and we arent gonna open X ray or the labs either at week ends! and you really think 'God is he joking?' and no he was not....

[jno]

but it seems there was no Plan A or B or C etc

like Brexit, then?

[Peter Pedant]

// It may be worth pointing out that even the doctors back then were not in favour either, at least until - in order to shut them up - Nye Bevan (quote) "stuffed their mouths with gold."//

so they werent in favour and then they were ....
o god it is gonna be one of those threads

it is worth pointing out that GPs pay was NOT agreed when they said yes
and so there was something called the Dankwerts award
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1952/oct/30/general-practitioners-danckwerts-award

yes in 1952 ! - doesnt really sound as tho the GPs voted yes because their mouths were stuffed with gold - but you know I am just talking history and not trying to re-write it