Hook-Handed Hate Preacher Abu Hamza Wants To Return To Britain

[naomi24]

//His lawyer said “There is a strong humanitarian case that it would be better for him on health grounds to be incarcerated there.

"It is also extremely unfair his family is not able to visit him in the United States.//

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/719109/hook-handed-abu-hamza-returning-sentence-extradition-US-terrorist-soft-jail-hostages

"Unfair"? Ahh, bless.

[andy-hughes]

ummmm - //He should have thought about that before committing them. //

A perfectly fair and understandable observation, but in the eyes of the law, we only punish the guilty party, and his family are not guilty of anything except being his family, which is not a crime.

[andy-hughes]

TTT - //no doubt the victims of his terrorists friends have families who are being punished too Andy. //

No doubt - but I refer you to my answer to ummmm.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - //Best to keep him separated from his family in case he indoctrinates them, if they haven't been already. //

You can't punish innocent people on the basis of what a criminal relative may or may not do.

[Peter Pedant]

I think his client is paying him (the lawyer) to say things like that

I thought we had sent him to Amman ( Jordan ) but never mind....

[andy-hughes]

Peter Pedant - //I think his client is paying him (the lawyer) to say things like that //

Obviously - that is his lawyer's job, and he would be remiss in his duties not to present any and all points he can in favour of getting his client what he wants.

[ummmm]

Maybe his family are glad he's gone.

[Peter Pedant]

// You can't punish innocent people on the basis of what a criminal relative may or may not do.//

erm but people frequently do

oradour sur glanes (" we got the wrong village so we had to do it all over again a few weeks later - Farm Hall tapes)
Lidice

and Saddam Hussein was shot at in a village and went back and filled the whole lot and razed the site

[andy-hughes]

Peter Pedant //// You can't punish innocent people on the basis of what a criminal relative may or may not do.//

erm but people frequently do //

True, but that does not make it right, or acceptable.

//oradour sur glanes (" we got the wrong village so we had to do it all over again a few weeks later - Farm Hall tapes)
Lidice

and Saddam Hussein was shot at in a village and went back and filled the whole lot and razed the site //

I don't understand the remainder of your post.

[Peter Pedant]

andy - I dont understand the rest of your post

you read history but perhaps do not learn from it
oradour sur glanes is a place in France flattened in reprisal for the death of German officer - wiki is useful here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane_massacre

Lidice is a village now in the Csech republic flattened in reprisal for the death in Prague of Heydrich ( a very important German - Reichsprotector of Bohemia and Moravia I think )

and I think the village Saddam Hussein flattened was called Dujail after someone shot at him
(" after being convicted of crimes against humanity by the Iraqi Special Tribunal for the murder of 148 Iraqi Shi'ites in the town of Dujail in 1982,")

and the farm hall tapes were a listening programme by the Allies on captured German officers ( from 1944 - we didnt catch any before then ) and one said offhand about Oradour massacre " we got the wrong village and so ..... "

I am pleased to recall a bit of history to brighten up an other wise predictable thread.

[ludwig]

andy-h // They are being penalised for his crimes. //

No they aren't. They are suffering as a result of his crimes, which is a different thing altogether.

[ludwig]

andy-h // They are being penalised for his crimes. //

No they aren't. They are suffering as a result of his crimes, which is a different thing altogether.

[youngmafbog]

//His family are innocent They are being penalised for his crimes//

So from what you are saying we should not incarcarate, fine or issue community service to anyone as their families will be penalized for the crime?

Jeeez, give me strength.

[ummmm]

I think you know what he means!!

[ludwig]

^ My thoughts exactly youngmaf. Families always suffer when criminals are sentenced. If you follow the logic that the family is also being punished unfairly by the state, it would be impossible to sentence punish anyone for anything.

[youngmafbog]

No I dont actually on this one Ummm.

From Andy:

//You can't punish innocent people on the basis of what a criminal relative may or may not do. //

[naomi24]

Ludwig is right. His family are not being penalised. They find themselves minus him solely due to his appalling actions – and their 'plight' is not a reason to lessen his penalty.

[ummmm]

Well I don't believe Andy is saying he shouldn't get the punishment he deserved but it just means that his wife and kids can never visit him.

What are the chances of any of them being allowed in the US?

[ummmm]

I also agree with Ludwig.

[Haggisdj]

I'ma bit confused. I thought he was Egyptian so why are they appealing to the ECHR?

[youngmafbog]

AH made the statement:
//You can't punish innocent people on the basis of what a criminal relative may or may not do. //

That is a wide open statement not restricted to Hookies family.