Film, Media & TV2 mins ago
Ched Evans - Not Guilty
I haven't been following this story , myself
He has been found not guilty
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He has been found not guilty
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What case?
All you have done is try and find as many ways as possible of denigrating the woman involved in this whole disgusting business.
I have never ever said that I think the verdict is wrong - I only have issues with the way it as reached.
So your 'case' - like your Timothy Evans analogy, is pointless and meaningless.
All you have done is try and find as many ways as possible of denigrating the woman involved in this whole disgusting business.
I have never ever said that I think the verdict is wrong - I only have issues with the way it as reached.
So your 'case' - like your Timothy Evans analogy, is pointless and meaningless.
andy-hughes,// I have never ever said that I think the verdict is wrong//
You’ve given a pretty good impression otherwise – hence all the posts disagreeing with you
//All you have done is try and find as many ways as possible of denigrating the woman involved in this whole disgusting business. //
I've done nothing of the sort. All I've said is that in my opinion she's not a shrinking violet.
You’ve given a pretty good impression otherwise – hence all the posts disagreeing with you
//All you have done is try and find as many ways as possible of denigrating the woman involved in this whole disgusting business. //
I've done nothing of the sort. All I've said is that in my opinion she's not a shrinking violet.
jim360 - //But you have kind of being tying yourself up in knots though (and I say that as an expert in achieving this apparently). //
I agree with you in the vast majority of cases, but I part company with you on this one.
My position in this thread has been uniform -
I accept that Evans has been acquitted.
I put forward the view that maybe the woman concerned was not a willing participant in the court proceedings - I believe that if she personally thought she had been raped, she would have instigated the charge. She did not, and at no time has she changed her position in terms of her belief that she was raped.
I have fought vehemently against those who chip away at the notion that she is the innocent party in this horrible situation - because they seek to vindicate Evans' behaviour - abhorrent even by his own admission, and he should know - by trying to paint her as a schemer, and a woman of dubious morality.
Naomi uses the quaint Edwardian gentleman's phrase 'no shrinking violet' - and neither the woman in court, or me on here have tried to suggest that she is. But that does not equate that she is somehow not scarred by the vitriol of troll supporters, or that she meant any harm to Evans in any way at all.
So, in conclusion I repeat - for those who read my posts, misunderstand them, and the sound off - I do accept the rule of law, Evans is not guilty of rape.
But the woman concerned is innocent, she was not on trial at all, let's not forget that.
I agree with you in the vast majority of cases, but I part company with you on this one.
My position in this thread has been uniform -
I accept that Evans has been acquitted.
I put forward the view that maybe the woman concerned was not a willing participant in the court proceedings - I believe that if she personally thought she had been raped, she would have instigated the charge. She did not, and at no time has she changed her position in terms of her belief that she was raped.
I have fought vehemently against those who chip away at the notion that she is the innocent party in this horrible situation - because they seek to vindicate Evans' behaviour - abhorrent even by his own admission, and he should know - by trying to paint her as a schemer, and a woman of dubious morality.
Naomi uses the quaint Edwardian gentleman's phrase 'no shrinking violet' - and neither the woman in court, or me on here have tried to suggest that she is. But that does not equate that she is somehow not scarred by the vitriol of troll supporters, or that she meant any harm to Evans in any way at all.
So, in conclusion I repeat - for those who read my posts, misunderstand them, and the sound off - I do accept the rule of law, Evans is not guilty of rape.
But the woman concerned is innocent, she was not on trial at all, let's not forget that.
-- answer removed --
//I put forward the view that maybe the woman concerned was not a willing participant in the court proceedings - I believe that if she personally thought she had been raped, she would have instigated the charge.//
And I put forward the factual reason why there was a flaw in your view (not based on assumption or guesswork but based on first hand knowledge of how the criminal just system works).
//She did not, and at no time has she changed her position in terms of her belief that she was raped.//
And you know this how? If you have access to the transcript of her evidence, I am sure there are people on here who would like to see it.
And I put forward the factual reason why there was a flaw in your view (not based on assumption or guesswork but based on first hand knowledge of how the criminal just system works).
//She did not, and at no time has she changed her position in terms of her belief that she was raped.//
And you know this how? If you have access to the transcript of her evidence, I am sure there are people on here who would like to see it.
Barmaid - ////She did not, and at no time has she changed her position in terms of her belief that she was raped.//
And you know this how? If you have access to the transcript of her evidence, I am sure there are people on here who would like to see it. //
If the woman had said she was raped, then she would have raised the charge - she didn't - that is a matter of reported fact.
If she had changed her position, do you not think that there is the teeniest chance the prosecution might have liked to use it to bolster their case?
And if something as monumentally important as a key witness changing her previous reported version of events - do you not think the media might just have noticed, and maybe written just a word or two?
They didn't - because she didn't.
You don't need a transcript to see those facts - the absence of reporting makes it very clear for you.
And you know this how? If you have access to the transcript of her evidence, I am sure there are people on here who would like to see it. //
If the woman had said she was raped, then she would have raised the charge - she didn't - that is a matter of reported fact.
If she had changed her position, do you not think that there is the teeniest chance the prosecution might have liked to use it to bolster their case?
And if something as monumentally important as a key witness changing her previous reported version of events - do you not think the media might just have noticed, and maybe written just a word or two?
They didn't - because she didn't.
You don't need a transcript to see those facts - the absence of reporting makes it very clear for you.
-- answer removed --
-- answer removed --
divebuddy - //Andy. Why don't you just accept that sometimes your whirling word machine spins out of control and that this is one of those occasions. //
You think not guilty and innocent are the same.
I have provided a link that proves your view to be flawed.
It's not my 'whirling word machine' that is doing anything!
Why don't you admit that you were wrong?
You think not guilty and innocent are the same.
I have provided a link that proves your view to be flawed.
It's not my 'whirling word machine' that is doing anything!
Why don't you admit that you were wrong?
-- answer removed --
//If the woman had said she was raped, then she would have raised the charge - she didn't - that is a matter of reported fact.//
FGS Andy. She didnt raise it as a charge because she cant. Only the police can charge based on CPS advice.
Fact is, she co-operated. FACT! She attended two trials. (The latter was of no consequence to her since CE had already been released on licence). Without her co-operation there would not have been one trial. FACT. Her handbag was found in the pizza parlour. She made the initial complaint when she woke up alone, with a headache and confused, having wet herself and as a result consented to an examination . (I've just found the original Judgement of Mittings J and Williams J in the CA).
I am more concerned with the idea that the first jury could acquit MacDonald and convict Evans. How the hell that happened is anyone's guess. If she was too shedded to consent to one, presumably she was too shedded to consent to the other (although no trace of alcohol was found at 11.30am and her blood alcohol level at 4.15 would have been 2.5 x the legal driving limit).
There is also no need to be quite so sarcastic. I wish we could all charge people, rather than leave it in the hands of the police. I can think of a number of people whom I might want to charge as being insufferably, boring *****s, but I cant.
FGS Andy. She didnt raise it as a charge because she cant. Only the police can charge based on CPS advice.
Fact is, she co-operated. FACT! She attended two trials. (The latter was of no consequence to her since CE had already been released on licence). Without her co-operation there would not have been one trial. FACT. Her handbag was found in the pizza parlour. She made the initial complaint when she woke up alone, with a headache and confused, having wet herself and as a result consented to an examination . (I've just found the original Judgement of Mittings J and Williams J in the CA).
I am more concerned with the idea that the first jury could acquit MacDonald and convict Evans. How the hell that happened is anyone's guess. If she was too shedded to consent to one, presumably she was too shedded to consent to the other (although no trace of alcohol was found at 11.30am and her blood alcohol level at 4.15 would have been 2.5 x the legal driving limit).
There is also no need to be quite so sarcastic. I wish we could all charge people, rather than leave it in the hands of the police. I can think of a number of people whom I might want to charge as being insufferably, boring *****s, but I cant.
Divebuddy -
http://
Read it.
Read it again.
Think about it.
Think about it again.
Digest it.
Drop the argument.
http://
Read it.
Read it again.
Think about it.
Think about it again.
Digest it.
Drop the argument.
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