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Texas Takes Trump To 304.
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What's the next Trump trick to be tried?
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There's a marked difference, though, between "irrelevant under the current system" and "irrelevant under an ideal system". It's obvious that Clinton's popular vote lead (or UKIP's under-representation in the Commons) are irrelevant under the current system, so that Trump's presidency, or UKIP's lack of MPs, are just a part of how things work. I would have hoped it's equally obvious that complaining about how unfair it is is well-motivated, and people might wonder if the current system is the best after all if it doesn't do the job it was meant to (ie, represent the people's choice).
Anyone who voted for UKIP could feel cheated even as they understood that it was a legitimate consequence of the current system. Ditto, supporters of Clinton (or, rather, opponents of Trump). Why not feel motivated to call for a change?
Anyone who voted for UKIP could feel cheated even as they understood that it was a legitimate consequence of the current system. Ditto, supporters of Clinton (or, rather, opponents of Trump). Why not feel motivated to call for a change?
yes jim we may well take the view that the percentages of the anomalies indicate that some other system is needed and yes it should be entertained as a discussion point but dragging up the bl33din obvious every time the people give the "wrong" result is of no use to any argument. It has been demonstrated time and again that if the percentage of votes is the only relevant statistic then neither US or UK would ever have had a stable government. So if there is a better system out there lets hear it.
It's quite simple Tora: other countries manage to have presidential elections where a simple majority ends up voting for the president. America does what it does presumably as a gesture to its federal constitution.
The US system needs a thorough overhaul as there is widespread gerrymandering of local constituencies to keep the same party in power
The US system needs a thorough overhaul as there is widespread gerrymandering of local constituencies to keep the same party in power
Well, who knows, maybe those Second Amendment people or something ...
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Khandro's point would be nice were it not for the fact that it's also wrong. I spent a great deal of energy on AB explaining how much of a travesty it was that UKIP only got one seat, and I don't even like the party. You don't have to support those worse off under the present system to see that it's broken.
Or, to turn it around perhaps, "Funny that the people who insist that there's nothing wrong with the present system are those who won because of it!"
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Khandro's point would be nice were it not for the fact that it's also wrong. I spent a great deal of energy on AB explaining how much of a travesty it was that UKIP only got one seat, and I don't even like the party. You don't have to support those worse off under the present system to see that it's broken.
Or, to turn it around perhaps, "Funny that the people who insist that there's nothing wrong with the present system are those who won because of it!"
jim; I agree completely with you about the unfair UKIP debacle and have argued the point myself often on here.
The point I was making was if the US election vote had gone the other way,
i.e. Clinton had won with less votes than Trump, would we have heard any complaints of unfairness from you and ichkeria etc. ?
The point I was making was if the US election vote had gone the other way,
i.e. Clinton had won with less votes than Trump, would we have heard any complaints of unfairness from you and ichkeria etc. ?
Actually there are plenty of ideas. For example, in the US at least, you could just discard the electoral college system -- or remove the winner-take-all rule that applies to 48 of the 50 states, so that (at least an element of) the electoral college is proportionate to voter share in each state.
The bigger problem is that "better" is somewhat subjective. But since there are something like 30 or 40 voting systems to choose from, at least there's no shortage of options.
The bigger problem is that "better" is somewhat subjective. But since there are something like 30 or 40 voting systems to choose from, at least there's no shortage of options.
"A bullet you say ich? So now the left are condoning assassination! PMSL, is there no limit to the bitterness of those who did not get their own way?
Put it this way, he's set himself at odds with those rampant left wingers US's security services and there must be people who are genuinely concerned.
I'd say impeachment is much more likely.
Put it this way, he's set himself at odds with those rampant left wingers US's security services and there must be people who are genuinely concerned.
I'd say impeachment is much more likely.
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