How Can Someone Be So Naive To Believe...
Society & Culture10 mins ago
Thousands Of Gay Men Pardoned For Past Convictions
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Great news for the families of these men. They should never have been subject to this bigotry in the first place.
Great news for the families of these men. They should never have been subject to this bigotry in the first place.
Answers
Absolutely appalling how gay people were treated in those years and many will say too little, too late, but if the families get some kind of closure over this, that can't be a bad thing I suppose. Doesn't change the fact that it should never have happened in the first place, as you quite rightly mention, mikey.
21:12 Tue 31st Jan 2017
There have been a number of law changes which have effectively decriminalised previously illegal practices. I see no pardons for anything else. Why is this so special?
These activities were illegal under the legislation prevailing at the time and they were undertaken knowing that. No pardons are justified.
These activities were illegal under the legislation prevailing at the time and they were undertaken knowing that. No pardons are justified.
Absolutely appalling how gay people were treated in those years and many will say too little, too late, but if the families get some kind of closure over this, that can't be a bad thing I suppose.
Doesn't change the fact that it should never have happened in the first place, as you quite rightly mention, mikey.
Doesn't change the fact that it should never have happened in the first place, as you quite rightly mention, mikey.
I'm glad the crime has been eradicated, but I can't see what good it will do to have an official pardon. What does an official pardon mean? Does the family get a certificate? :/
I don't know what the families of these men have gone through, but hopefully the fact that homosexuality isn't even a thing to be worried about now is some comfort to them.
I think people know Turing for his maths brain and the Enigma decrypting rather than his homosexuality.
I don't know what the families of these men have gone through, but hopefully the fact that homosexuality isn't even a thing to be worried about now is some comfort to them.
I think people know Turing for his maths brain and the Enigma decrypting rather than his homosexuality.
Normally I respect what New Judge says, but on this I wholeheartedly disagree. The law was wrong.
Now that it has been put right it is only right that victims of the law are pardoned, if only for the familys' benefit.
I would go further that my understanding of the word pardon is that they are forgiven. That's not enough, as it suggests they are still thought to have done wrong.
Now that it has been put right it is only right that victims of the law are pardoned, if only for the familys' benefit.
I would go further that my understanding of the word pardon is that they are forgiven. That's not enough, as it suggests they are still thought to have done wrong.
Don’t misunderstand me Hopkirk. I fully accept that the law was wrong. I’d go further than that and say it was absolutely no business of any State what consenting adults get up to in their private lives. That isn’t my point.
Pardons are for people who were wrongly convicted. These people were properly convicted under the law at the time. The law was wrong (as many laws were). But a pardon is not appropriate. A pardon indicates that the person pardoned was innocent. That is not the case here and the person “pardoned” is simply being issued to assuage the “third party” guilt that people today have apparently taken on for actions of people in the past.
Pardons are for people who were wrongly convicted. These people were properly convicted under the law at the time. The law was wrong (as many laws were). But a pardon is not appropriate. A pardon indicates that the person pardoned was innocent. That is not the case here and the person “pardoned” is simply being issued to assuage the “third party” guilt that people today have apparently taken on for actions of people in the past.
This subject has been debated previously, and my personal view has not changed - these men should not have been pardoned for their offences.
I entirely appreciate that the law was a bad law, but that does not mean that because it was a bad law, that it is invalidated by the passage of time.
Were that the case, then there would be endless other examples of bad law that should see its convictions quashed - and that is not only not practical, in my view it I not legally or morally right.
It I were convicted for speeding and forty miles an hour in a thirty zone, and then years later, the limit was amended to fort, meaning I would not be convicted today, does that mean my endorsement is removed and my fine reimbursed? No, and I would not expect it to be so - I was convicted under the law at the time, and that is how the law operates.
We cannot re-write history to take into account our greater humanity and understanding, what is done is done.
Simply because we as a society are enlightened enough to feel shame over our bad laws does not mean that the criminals convicted under it were not guilty. Clearly they were - and a 'pardon' does not alter that fact.
I entirely appreciate that the law was a bad law, but that does not mean that because it was a bad law, that it is invalidated by the passage of time.
Were that the case, then there would be endless other examples of bad law that should see its convictions quashed - and that is not only not practical, in my view it I not legally or morally right.
It I were convicted for speeding and forty miles an hour in a thirty zone, and then years later, the limit was amended to fort, meaning I would not be convicted today, does that mean my endorsement is removed and my fine reimbursed? No, and I would not expect it to be so - I was convicted under the law at the time, and that is how the law operates.
We cannot re-write history to take into account our greater humanity and understanding, what is done is done.
Simply because we as a society are enlightened enough to feel shame over our bad laws does not mean that the criminals convicted under it were not guilty. Clearly they were - and a 'pardon' does not alter that fact.
Andy......Your analogy of the speeding fine doesn't really make much sense.
In your example, there was a good reason why 30mph was chosen at the time, for public safety. Maybe that road has been reassessed now, thus causing a higher mph to be applied. We have many roads in my locale that now have 20mph limits, when previously they had 30mph limits. Circumstances change.
The law on sexual acts between consenting men could never be justified in the first place, as no one was in danger. It was applied because of ignorance and bigotry, a bigotry that survived long into my lifetime and is still alive in some peoples minds now.
This move sends an important signal, in that what people get up to in bed is none of anybody else's business, not should it ever have been. It didn't "cure" men of homosexuality, as it didn't with Turing, only make them into men with a criminal record, and in some cases their reputations were ruined for ever as a result.
I applaud this move wholeheartedly.
In your example, there was a good reason why 30mph was chosen at the time, for public safety. Maybe that road has been reassessed now, thus causing a higher mph to be applied. We have many roads in my locale that now have 20mph limits, when previously they had 30mph limits. Circumstances change.
The law on sexual acts between consenting men could never be justified in the first place, as no one was in danger. It was applied because of ignorance and bigotry, a bigotry that survived long into my lifetime and is still alive in some peoples minds now.
This move sends an important signal, in that what people get up to in bed is none of anybody else's business, not should it ever have been. It didn't "cure" men of homosexuality, as it didn't with Turing, only make them into men with a criminal record, and in some cases their reputations were ruined for ever as a result.
I applaud this move wholeheartedly.
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