The Mantle Of Edmond Burke Falls On The Shoulders Of John Bercow?

[vetuste_ennemi]

Elijah passing the baton to Elisha I understand. But Burke and Bercow? Does Bercow know who Burke was?

This claim of a shared (moral!) by an Indian born journalist has just been made on Sky News. To her credit she cites precedents in parliamentary criticisms of the East India Company.

If you're watching please argue for or against.

[vetuste_ennemi]

I meant to say a shared tradtion

[Jackdaw33]

You should have titled this Burke and Berk.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Try to maintain the high standards of AB debate, Jackdaw. The next minute you'll be quoting louche Latin poets.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Who was the author (Martial, Horace?) and who was the translator (Tom Brown?) of the verse/epigram ending in its English form "...And this I know and know full well, I do not love thee Dr. Fell"?

Have you read the Balliol Ballads (Jowett/knowit etc)

Could Google it

[vetuste_ennemi]

could..., but a human answer might be more amusing.

[Jackdaw33]

The anecdote associated with the origin of the rhyme is that when Brown was a student at the Christ Church, Oxford, he was caught doing mischief. The dean of Christ Church, John Fell (1625–1686), who later went on to become the Bishop of Oxford, expelled Brown; but offered to take him back if he passed a test. If Brown could extemporaneously translate the thirty-second epigram of Martial (a well known Roman epigramist), his expulsion would be cancelled. The epigram in Latin is as follows:
Non amo te, Sabidi, nec possum dicere quare;
Hoc tantum possum dicere, non amo te.[3]
Brown made the impromptu English translation which became the verse:
I do not like thee, Doctor Fell,
The reason why - I cannot tell;
But this I know, and know full well,
I do not like thee, Doctor Fell.[3]

[vetuste_ennemi]

Thanks, Jackdaw.

Martial, then. Simpler Latin than last night's.

Read a bit of Jowett as a kid 'cos of his being most esteemed Plato translator. (Preferred Penguin Classics versions myself).

Super rhyme in BBs:

"I am the master of this college...
...If I don't know it it ain't knowledge".

[Jackdaw33]

Some twenty or so years ago there was a clue in the Times crossword which foxed a great many people, including me.

Clue: Omniscient mastermind?
Ans: Jowett

Until then I confess I had not heard of him.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Yeah, toughie question that. Sounds like one of the tie-breaker crosswords the Times did to decide entry to its yearly xword comp.

Didn't do them in my twenties, but one of my drinking/poker/chess mates did, and I was able to give him "Ogygia". The clue was allusive (knowledge-based rather than cryptic) as is the omniscient one is. "Island of Calypso" may have been the clue, but it was probably a little more subtle than that.

[jno]

he might at least know how to spell Burke's first name, which would make him smarter than you.