Body & Soul1 min ago
Has Immigration On The Scale That We Have Seen It, Been Beneficial To The Uk?
43 Answers
Please enter both the advantages and the disadvantages.
Perhaps I should start off, yes I know that the NHS could not work today, without the valuable work of the foreign Surgeons, Doctors, Nurses and auxiliary staff, but then one has to ask, how did we manage before mass immigration?
Before mass immigration, one could speak their mind, without the constant looking over one's shoulder, to see if one had offended anyone.
The words political correctness, racist, bigot, xenophobic, islamophobic etc had little or no airing.
Could the UK exist without immigration?
No of course not and never has, but the right type of immigrant is needed, those who are prepared to integrate and also bring in skills that are an advantage to the UK.
Perhaps I should start off, yes I know that the NHS could not work today, without the valuable work of the foreign Surgeons, Doctors, Nurses and auxiliary staff, but then one has to ask, how did we manage before mass immigration?
Before mass immigration, one could speak their mind, without the constant looking over one's shoulder, to see if one had offended anyone.
The words political correctness, racist, bigot, xenophobic, islamophobic etc had little or no airing.
Could the UK exist without immigration?
No of course not and never has, but the right type of immigrant is needed, those who are prepared to integrate and also bring in skills that are an advantage to the UK.
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Yes.
As a country we have gained far, far more from immigration than we have lost. Advantages would be from the everyday (being able to buy a pint of milk on a Sunday, pre-Sunday opening, a decent range of food we would never have experienced otherwise) to the esoteric (appreciation of a different culture or point of view that enhances an individuals understanding). Disadvantages would be added pressure on key services and providing a situation which a certain sector of society can use to promote their own juvenile ideals. Many, many more on both sides of the argument, but this isn't really about totalling up scores is it - sometimes the sum of the parts is greater than the whole.
Mass immigration has little, if anything, to do with your perception that we can't speak our minds - this is the result of home-bred do-gooders who feel morally superior when they can be offended on behalf of someone else. Thankfully there's still no law that states that anyone has the right not to be offended, but don't let that get in the way of a Daily Mail headline or your willingness to be offended at not being able to offend.
Likewise the words you chose to quote, whilst these can be (and are) overused and the refuge of the professionally offended, they also have a place when used in the correct context. If you're saying that there were no racists, bigots etc prior to immigration I'll call you out - if you're saying it was OK to be one of these before immigration and the worlds a worse place for not being able to promote these views now, I'll call you a fool.
Could the UK exist without immigration? Of course, but good luck getting the shell-suited, WKD drinking, dole claiming, self-entitled window lickers off their sofas to empty your bins.
I wonder if this same conversation is happening on the Spanish version of Answerbank, with someone asking "Has The Influx Of British Pensioners And Criminals On The Scale That We Have Seen It, Been Beneficial To Spain? And Do I Really Need To Capitalise Every Word In The Title?" This is not just a UK problem and it's not a recent one either, sometimes I wonder if we shouldn't just be grateful that we were born in a country that so many other people aspire to live in?
And no - I'm not a bleeding heart leftie (far from it), just not driven by desperate Daily Mail / Express headlines.
As a country we have gained far, far more from immigration than we have lost. Advantages would be from the everyday (being able to buy a pint of milk on a Sunday, pre-Sunday opening, a decent range of food we would never have experienced otherwise) to the esoteric (appreciation of a different culture or point of view that enhances an individuals understanding). Disadvantages would be added pressure on key services and providing a situation which a certain sector of society can use to promote their own juvenile ideals. Many, many more on both sides of the argument, but this isn't really about totalling up scores is it - sometimes the sum of the parts is greater than the whole.
Mass immigration has little, if anything, to do with your perception that we can't speak our minds - this is the result of home-bred do-gooders who feel morally superior when they can be offended on behalf of someone else. Thankfully there's still no law that states that anyone has the right not to be offended, but don't let that get in the way of a Daily Mail headline or your willingness to be offended at not being able to offend.
Likewise the words you chose to quote, whilst these can be (and are) overused and the refuge of the professionally offended, they also have a place when used in the correct context. If you're saying that there were no racists, bigots etc prior to immigration I'll call you out - if you're saying it was OK to be one of these before immigration and the worlds a worse place for not being able to promote these views now, I'll call you a fool.
Could the UK exist without immigration? Of course, but good luck getting the shell-suited, WKD drinking, dole claiming, self-entitled window lickers off their sofas to empty your bins.
I wonder if this same conversation is happening on the Spanish version of Answerbank, with someone asking "Has The Influx Of British Pensioners And Criminals On The Scale That We Have Seen It, Been Beneficial To Spain? And Do I Really Need To Capitalise Every Word In The Title?" This is not just a UK problem and it's not a recent one either, sometimes I wonder if we shouldn't just be grateful that we were born in a country that so many other people aspire to live in?
And no - I'm not a bleeding heart leftie (far from it), just not driven by desperate Daily Mail / Express headlines.
EDDIE51
/// You mean immigration by people whose skin is a different colour to the indigenous North European population. ///
No I think it is you and not I who is suggesting that.
But thanks for the history lesson anyway, although I was taught that many moons ago.
But let me correct you on a little matter of skin colour, didn't the Romans also possess a swarthy skin tone, than the indigenous North European population. seeing that they didn't come from a North European country but a Mediterranean country such as Italy?
/// You mean immigration by people whose skin is a different colour to the indigenous North European population. ///
No I think it is you and not I who is suggesting that.
But thanks for the history lesson anyway, although I was taught that many moons ago.
But let me correct you on a little matter of skin colour, didn't the Romans also possess a swarthy skin tone, than the indigenous North European population. seeing that they didn't come from a North European country but a Mediterranean country such as Italy?
Mothman
For saying you have been a member since 05th Sep 2008, but asked no questions, gave only 5 answers, whilst attaining 4 badges, you have a lot to say, and I thank you for your input.
But if I was to weight the chance of a Doctor paying a home visit or being allowed a bed in a ward rather than a corridor, against being able to buy a pint of milk or enjoy a certain type of food, it would be the former.
No need whatsoever to use words like juvenile ideals, when those ideals may be opposite to yours.
You made an uncalled reference to Spain's immigration problems, most of their ex UK pensioners are self supporting, unlike some of our 'economic migrants' and we have many more foreign criminals than Spain has.
/// Really Need To Capitalise Every Word In The Title?" ///
If you came on AB more often, you would soon learn that the poster has no control over how AB chooses to display their poster's headlines.
Try it sometime by posting a question.
For saying you have been a member since 05th Sep 2008, but asked no questions, gave only 5 answers, whilst attaining 4 badges, you have a lot to say, and I thank you for your input.
But if I was to weight the chance of a Doctor paying a home visit or being allowed a bed in a ward rather than a corridor, against being able to buy a pint of milk or enjoy a certain type of food, it would be the former.
No need whatsoever to use words like juvenile ideals, when those ideals may be opposite to yours.
You made an uncalled reference to Spain's immigration problems, most of their ex UK pensioners are self supporting, unlike some of our 'economic migrants' and we have many more foreign criminals than Spain has.
/// Really Need To Capitalise Every Word In The Title?" ///
If you came on AB more often, you would soon learn that the poster has no control over how AB chooses to display their poster's headlines.
Try it sometime by posting a question.
Talbot posted a rather brilliant Stewart Lee sketch on this exact subject yesterday ...
https:/
https:/
-- answer removed --
Yes and no. That is the simple answer.
Yes because there are a lot of low paid workers that fill the gap between what people can get on benefits and what they are prepared to work for. (Why should some lazy *** get out of bed to pick fruit when they can stay at home playing on the Xbox and get free money!!
No because the influx of migrants that do not and (perhaps because of language or their way of life) will not work and drain the state is untenable in the long term.
The NHS didn't need migrants to shore up the shortfall in nurses. They needed nursing to be more appealing as a career.
It is easy to say (in whatever tone or volume you chose) we need migrants to do xyz jobs because with so many unemployed there should be very few jobs that we can't fill. Specialisation is a different matter but the 'grunt workers' if you like are aplenty. They just have aspiration s above their ability.
Yes because there are a lot of low paid workers that fill the gap between what people can get on benefits and what they are prepared to work for. (Why should some lazy *** get out of bed to pick fruit when they can stay at home playing on the Xbox and get free money!!
No because the influx of migrants that do not and (perhaps because of language or their way of life) will not work and drain the state is untenable in the long term.
The NHS didn't need migrants to shore up the shortfall in nurses. They needed nursing to be more appealing as a career.
It is easy to say (in whatever tone or volume you chose) we need migrants to do xyz jobs because with so many unemployed there should be very few jobs that we can't fill. Specialisation is a different matter but the 'grunt workers' if you like are aplenty. They just have aspiration s above their ability.
Thank you for taking the time to reply AOG
I can't pass up the opportunity, so.....
//For saying you have been a member since 05th Sep 2008, but asked no questions, gave only 5 answers// - is this really relevant? Does a certain level of activity add value or weight to an opinion on here? Strangely I feel no need, or desire, to justify my level of activity to an unknown person on the internet, so won't.
//But if I was to weight the chance of a Doctor paying a home visit or being allowed a bed in a ward ...etc// As indeed would I. I carefully included the words 'From' and 'To' in my response, indicating that a whole range of items lie between the examples given, you would also note that I specifically mentioned the pressure on 'key services', so I'm not unaware of the issue. I'm not convinced that the current state of the NHS is solely due to immigration, it will have an impact of course, but so will the general growth in population, the profoundly unhealthy lifestyle enjoyed by many people and the policy of austerity that will have affected NHS funding. To use this as an example will play well to the stalls but is disingenuous.
//No need whatsoever to use words like juvenile ideals, when those ideals may be opposite to yours.// Plenty of ideals are in opposition to mine, I don't always call them juvenile but when someone bases their opinions of a huge mass of individuals on skin colour, culture, creed or accent they are being juvenile and I feel completely justified in saying so. You seem to be taking that point personally, when it wasn't aimed at you. Oddly, however, you were bemoaning that you felt you couldn't speak your mind, yet are quick to shoot down someone, using somewhat "I'm Offended" language to do so, who's doing exactly that, there's a hint of irony there somewhere.
//You made an uncalled reference to Spain's immigration problems//. Not uncalled for at all - you mentioned the "right type of immigrant", would these include a hoarde of non-working, aged pensioners, who will of course be drawing on essential services? What skills are they bringing? And as for integration - please, my sides are splitting. I'm balancing the books by pointing out that it works both ways.
//If you came on AB more often, you would soon learn that the poster has no control over how AB chooses to display their poster's headlines.// It was an attempt to inject a smile. It could've gone better.
We're probably in broad agreement that unfettered immigration is a Bad Thing and that some form of filter should be applied, and that subsequent integration is somewhat desirable. But I can't agree that your perceived drop in freedom of expression is linked in any way - unless of course you like to wander down your High Street screaming racial obscenities, in which case you might find that to be increasingly uncomfortable.
I'm guessing you read the Daily Mail.
Kisses.
I can't pass up the opportunity, so.....
//For saying you have been a member since 05th Sep 2008, but asked no questions, gave only 5 answers// - is this really relevant? Does a certain level of activity add value or weight to an opinion on here? Strangely I feel no need, or desire, to justify my level of activity to an unknown person on the internet, so won't.
//But if I was to weight the chance of a Doctor paying a home visit or being allowed a bed in a ward ...etc// As indeed would I. I carefully included the words 'From' and 'To' in my response, indicating that a whole range of items lie between the examples given, you would also note that I specifically mentioned the pressure on 'key services', so I'm not unaware of the issue. I'm not convinced that the current state of the NHS is solely due to immigration, it will have an impact of course, but so will the general growth in population, the profoundly unhealthy lifestyle enjoyed by many people and the policy of austerity that will have affected NHS funding. To use this as an example will play well to the stalls but is disingenuous.
//No need whatsoever to use words like juvenile ideals, when those ideals may be opposite to yours.// Plenty of ideals are in opposition to mine, I don't always call them juvenile but when someone bases their opinions of a huge mass of individuals on skin colour, culture, creed or accent they are being juvenile and I feel completely justified in saying so. You seem to be taking that point personally, when it wasn't aimed at you. Oddly, however, you were bemoaning that you felt you couldn't speak your mind, yet are quick to shoot down someone, using somewhat "I'm Offended" language to do so, who's doing exactly that, there's a hint of irony there somewhere.
//You made an uncalled reference to Spain's immigration problems//. Not uncalled for at all - you mentioned the "right type of immigrant", would these include a hoarde of non-working, aged pensioners, who will of course be drawing on essential services? What skills are they bringing? And as for integration - please, my sides are splitting. I'm balancing the books by pointing out that it works both ways.
//If you came on AB more often, you would soon learn that the poster has no control over how AB chooses to display their poster's headlines.// It was an attempt to inject a smile. It could've gone better.
We're probably in broad agreement that unfettered immigration is a Bad Thing and that some form of filter should be applied, and that subsequent integration is somewhat desirable. But I can't agree that your perceived drop in freedom of expression is linked in any way - unless of course you like to wander down your High Street screaming racial obscenities, in which case you might find that to be increasingly uncomfortable.
I'm guessing you read the Daily Mail.
Kisses.
// but then one has to ask, how did we manage before mass immigration? //
jesus what a complete non sequitur
because if we managed before mass immigation then obviously it follows we arent reliant on current immigrant to run the NHS
Indian subcontinent and afrocaribbean manual workers
which in fact you shoulld know about AOG because it occurred in your youth
By 1975 60% of junior doctors were Asian
and which minister of the Harold MacMillan government oversaw this ?
why a certain man called Mr Enoch Powell
( who later on kept Very Quiet Indeed on his role in this)
You should remember that as well AOG
jesus what a complete non sequitur
because if we managed before mass immigation then obviously it follows we arent reliant on current immigrant to run the NHS
Indian subcontinent and afrocaribbean manual workers
which in fact you shoulld know about AOG because it occurred in your youth
By 1975 60% of junior doctors were Asian
and which minister of the Harold MacMillan government oversaw this ?
why a certain man called Mr Enoch Powell
( who later on kept Very Quiet Indeed on his role in this)
You should remember that as well AOG
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