Project Fear?

[Kromovaracun]

Record numbers of EU nurses are leaving the NHS, and the number of new nurses from EU nations has dropped by over 90% since the EU referendum, according to the Royal College of Nursing.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/01/25/number-eu-nurses-coming-uk-falls-90-per-cent-since-brexit-vote/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/record-numbers-eu-citizens-nurses-brexit-quitting-nhs-staffing-crisis-right-to-remain-theresa-ma-a7637176.html

Have predictions about Brexit's impact on healthcare proved unfounded, or was it all doom-and-gloom "project fear" scaremongering?

[Gromit]

What?
Projectfear (if it ever existed) was about influencing the electorate BEFORE the referendum vote.

Not sure you can show links from 9 months AFTER the vote, and play the project fear card.

Some predictionss worked, and some didn't. We haven't actually left yet, so any behavour observed no, proves absolutely nothing.

[Kromovaracun]

Sorry, I probably should have put it in quotations. I'm actually trying to suggest that some of the pre-referendum "fearmongering" turned out to be fairly accurate.

[Old_Geezer]

All the more positions available to train those presently on welfare for then. That's if you believe there's a crisis to discuss.

[cassa333]

There is no reason for them to be leaving just because of Brexit. If they are it is their own probably unfounded fears driving it.

Maybe they are leaving because working conditions are rubbish. Maybe they are leaving because the NHS isn't the land of milk and honey. Maybe they are leaving a sinking ship (that is the NHS).

[fiction-factory]

I'm not sure it's that easy to convert a few thousand people on welfare into qualified nurses, O-G, but if enough investment is made in training programmes and entry standards are relaxed (or financial incentives are given) to encourage more people to train as nurses instead of becoming teachers or social workers then maybe the gap will be filled after 5-6 years from now

[Samjenko]

Stop making nursing a degree course. Return it to caring, on the job training.

[Samjenko]

As just about every prediction of Project Fear has turned out to be nonsense, this post would appear to be a straw clutching exercise.

[fiction-factory]

I think we'll just have to wait and see Sam. We need to put something in place longer term, i agree, to reduce our reliance on overseas nurses and doctors, but it will take years and I was just pointing out that the 'labour lump' approach that assumes we can simply replace them by using people who are on welfare is not the answer

[EDDIE51]

Nursing is a 'Degree Only' job now, the NHS recruits trainee nurses from the EU and they work here while studying for their nursing degree. Once trained and qualified they tend to return home after a few years.
Leaving the EU will mean they can't come here in the first place , so there will be fewer nurses and other medical professionals . Yet another problem of leaving the EU that will need to be sorted out!
But of course according to the 'Brexit Brigade' there are no problems apart from 'sour grapes' and 'Bulls***'

[Kromovaracun]

Well, "Project Fear" predicted that an exodus of vital staff from the NHS would happen. Which seems about right to me...

[Samjenko]

Well, I'll file that one under bull****, eddie.
When we leave the EU, we'll get to decide who comes here. So if we want nurses, we'll have them. (however,you may well find a shortage of beeg issue sellers in future)

[cassa333]

Definitely put nursing back in the realms of nursing and not trying to make them sudo doctors.

My neighbour used to be a nurse and she says that modern nurses haven't the slightest idea how to be nurses. They don't teach them about nursing. They teach them how to be administrators.

Get rid of the degrees. Make nursing about nursing care with entry qualifications that match that.

[Old_Geezer]

Nurses need not come from the EU anyway. So I don't trust tales of woe and claims of crisis. Plus, as has been mentioned, it'd be a lot quicker to train if nurses went back to purely nursing care. It's just more scaremongering.

[EDDIE51]

Thanks for proving my point samjenko!
Cassa the people who do what was thought of a 'nurse's job' care of patients , emptying bedpans etc are now called 'ward assistants' .
Nurses all have to have a degree and are more administrators and 'nurse practitioners', they are far closer to being a doctor than to a ward assistant. Most 'Nurse Practitioners' see patients with out having to consult a doctor and are able to prescribe some medication. When I had suspected epilepsy ( subsequently not found to be epilepsy) all my treatment was by a nurse practitioner never saw a doctor!

[Khandro]

//and the number of new nurses from EU nations has dropped by over 90% since the EU referendum, //

I am always wary of percentage statistics; how many nurses was the NHS receiving from EU countries before the referendum and over what period are they talking about? It could be half a dozen over the previous week.

[cassa333]

I know that ward assistants and nurses are different. That is when the rot started. If there were enough Drs the nurses wouldn't need to be 'nearly Drs' would they?

If you want to be a Dr train to be a Dr. If you want to be a nurse train to be a nurse not a pretend Dr.

A nurse could work their way up to sister, ward sister, matron and beyond.

How can a ward assistant get to be a nurse?

[Zacs-Master]

Good point cassa. Worst thing the NHS did was to make nurses have to have a degree. Nursing is a vocation not a bloody degree choice.

[jno]

"Only 96 nurses joined the NHS from other European nations in December 2016 – a drop from 1,304 in July, the month after the referendum."

So more than half a dozen.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers

[EDDIE51]

Many ward assistants work their way up to becoming Nurses. They can do part time or day release college courses while working. Once they get their degree they become fully qualified nurses.

[Peter Pedant]

we have a settled polish family next to us

and I said to the migrant son - I will keep an eye on legislation as the PM has said you will stay but has repealed the act that says she must all ow you to stay which is gonna create uncertainty

and HE said
my sister she is polka and english - she should apply for a british passport as shes been here for ten years
I am not - I come here to work and if I have to go
I go somewhere else in the EU and work ....

and I said Oh blimey right OK