Police Name London Attacker

[MargoTester]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39372154

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - //andy-hughes, I'm not setting myself up as spokesperson for anyone. I'm giving my opinion. //

It is your opinion, but you phrase it as though it is a fact - and it's not.

[-Talbot-]

All Muslims are obviously not the same and think the same but it is rather stupid to facilitate the growth in Islam in this country.

There will always be radicals trying to convert the moderates (that according Erdogan shouldn't exist) and there will always be moderates who will listen to radicals preaching hate.

[andy-hughes]

A fair point Talbot.

But should the risk of radicalisation prevent the growth of a legitimate faith for those who choose to practice it? It's a seriously difficult moral dilemma, without simple 'one-size-fits-all' views, as regularly expressed by some posters.

[naomi24]

Garaman, You’re imagining things. I haven’t suggested shipping them out. As for ‘we have to learn to live together’, as far as I can see Europeans, in the main, are making the effort, but it takes two to tango and we are dancing alone.

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, //It is your opinion, but you phrase it as though it is a fact - and it's not. //

I'll phrase it however I want to phrase it.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - //I'll phrase it however I want to phrase it. //

And I'll challenge it every time I see it.

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, challenge all you like, but I take it that what you've just written on another thread applies only to you then.

//I fail to see why, when others express their own views, in their own way, they are accepted, but I am vilified //

[Garaman]

Naomi, what do you suggest as a solution to the problem that is unlikely to push more of the millions of Muslims already in Europe to extremism?

[hc4361]

He was born to a white, English single mother and raised in Rye - hardly a Muslim ghetto. No immigration involved at all. He converted to Islam in adulthood and was radicalised in Saudi

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - //andy-hughes, challenge all you like, but I take it that what you've just written on another thread applies only to you then.

//I fail to see why, when others express their own views, in their own way, they are accepted, but I am vilified //

Not the same at all.

I have not insulted you, merely queried the way in which your opinion appears to read as a statement of fact.

I have never accused you of being arrogant or ignorant simply for saying what you think - that is the difference.

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, you have a very short and highly selective memory – but I’m not getting into this nonsense with you again. It’s repetitive and tedious.

Garaman, I’m not sure there is a solution, but making efforts to placate Islam is not an option simply because it isn’t productive and achieves nothing. Regardless of what we do Islam isn’t going to change its mindset or its purpose. Both are enshrined in the tenets of the religion, and those tenets are to Islam immutable and beyond criticism. If you look at polls conducted by reputable organisations, quite worrying numbers of what we like to call ‘moderate Muslims’ sympathise with the extremists in one way or another – and that doesn’t apply solely to this country or to the rest of Europe – it applies worldwide. I’ve posted this several times before, but you may have missed it.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

Incidentally, people from other cultures alien to that of the west don’t seem to cause us too much of a problem, so with that in mind have you ever asked yourself ‘why only Islam?’ There has to be an answer to that somewhere ….. don’t you think?

[Garaman]

I don't disagree with anything you have just written, Naomi. I am not a defender of Islam; I think it is evil, My question though is about how we reduce the risk of terrorism. The proposals put forward by some, such as banning the movement of Muslims in Europe, would in my view just serve to increase the risk.

[Garaman]

What action would you suggest that might reduce the risk of Islamic terrorism, Naomi? I am genuinely interested in understanding what hardliners such as yourself and Samjenko think should be done.

[naomi24]

Garaman, According to the dictionary definition, a ‘hardliner’ is someone who pursues an uncompromising policy. You’re applying the term to the wrong party.

“What might reduce the risk of Islamic terrorism?”

Our security services are reducing the risk, and we could abolish faith schools, monitor mosques, and remove Imams from prisons – that would prevent radicalisation to a great degree - but nothing will ever stop Islam pursuing its objective.

[Garaman]

OK, Naomi, in that case I apologise for the 'hardliner' bit. I confess I did have you down as someone who followed a hard line against Islam. In fact your proposals are not at all as extreme as I imagined, though of course it is always difficult to say whether such actions would reduce the threat or anger enough people so as to increase it.

[naomi24]

Garaman, I’m a realist. If you want compromise don’t look to Islam.

[Garaman]

I set crosswords, Naomi, so am used to being a bit liberal with dictionary definitions :)

[naomi24]

Garaman, a curious word to define 'liberally'.