General Election 2017: Labour Manifesto Draft Leaked

[naomi24]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39877439

Your thoughts?

[Togo]

//Expand Bupa to everyone, and it would run in to the same problems as the NHS. I don't think it's a totally fair comparison. //

Give it the funds that the NHS gobbles up and it would do a damn sight better job to be sure. If I had been allowed to opt out of NHS contributions and pay that money into private health provisions and pensions, there is no doubt that I would be well funded and treated. Of course this may well disadvantage the less able, or unemployed, and I accept that it is a fair system for a grown up society. That doesn't mean I have to ignore the downright misuse of the collective money paid in to make it work, or to shrug my shoulders when there is evidence suggesting the obvious political nature of most of the demands by NHS employees, or their resistance to change to meet the needs of a different age compared to when the NHS was introduced. As in all such institutions the dedicated and caring staff are being led by the agitprops, professional dissenters, and spoilers.

[mushroom25]

//How can you run a railway system where one company owns the trains another owns the track , another owns the signaling equipment and yet another owns the station buildings? //

that's not entirely true eddie. network rail owns all the infrastructure - stations, signals, track, bridges, everything. much of the maintenance is also network rail's responsibility, although track renewals and station works are sub-contracted.

[woofgang]

Togo the other problem I used to see was a reluctance to adopt modern management practice or to bring in quality external managers to the senior jobs and give them sufficient clout to make change. Too often jobs were given to NHS staff who may have been the ablest among their peers but had no experience of senior management life outside of the NHS....where external staff were recruited, they tended to be “bargain basement” managers who hadn’t hacked it in the public sector.

[DTCwordfan]

welcome the New Democrat Party - Hilary Benn as leader perhaps?

[New Judge]

Ye Gods!!!!

[Togo]

I saw your earlier comment about your upbringing Woof. I too was raised in a cold water council house of working(damned hard) Parents and Grandparents. I am also the oldest of 13 children(that is not a typo) and working in a coal mine at 16 after having to leave Grammar school due to the obvious economic pressure. For my troubles the hand wringers and pretend working class like to portray me as a foam at the mouth fascis,t and lecture me on social economics. Little do they really know. I have worked hard all my life and paid N.I. for nearly 45 years, although 30 years is all that is required to be entitled to full state pension, and am told that I am now a "burden" on the state and depriving youngsters of opportunities just by being alive. Haha.

[Garaman]

The NHS is badly run but that is just a fraction of the problem. The idea of a cradle to grave health service for everyone funded by the taxpayer is no longer viable and it is high time a radical rethink.

[EDDIE51]

Many of the companies that operate the UK rail network are in fact owned by overseas firms, including European State run railways!
http://www.cityam.com/256824/owns-uks-railways-well-not-british-firms-many-cases

[naomi24]

The NHS should be run along business lines. The NHS is appallingly abused and it’s abused because it’s ‘free’. That doesn’t happen in the private sector.

[woofgang]

I remember chatting to a nurse who was working in the BUPA facility that DH was in. She was ex NHS and said she much preferred working in the private sector. She said she found the waste and the slovenly attitudes in the local acute NHS facility so stressful and annoying and it drove her crazy trying to maintain her own professional and personal standards in the face of what she saw every day. She said working in Bupa she knew that she wouldn’t have to clean toilets, because there were sufficient cleaners who did a good job, or scrape round for supplies because they weren’t misused or wasted; and that her shift would finish on time because there were no staff shortages. She said she was paid a little more, but not much, but her working conditions were much better and she felt respected both personally and professionally....says it all really :(

[mikey4444]

I have been out all day and haven't the time to read all the posts.

However, I will say this. Fr years people have been saying that there isn't much difference between Labour and the Tories....well...now there is !

Re-nationalise Royal Mail

Re-nationalise the railways was companies, when their contracts come to an end.

Build at least 100,000 low cost housing for rent.

Ban so-called zero hours contracts.

Institute at least one publicly owned energy supplier in Region, and introduce an "immediate emergency price cap" of £1,000 a year.

Highly popular policies I would have thought.

[naomi24]

woofgang, a relative of mine works in the NHS – front-line in a very senior position. I showed her an itemised bill - that included absolutely everything down to Paracetamol tablets and sets of rubber gloves - I had received after having surgery in a private hospital. She was appalled – not by the cost – but by the utterly thoughtless waste in the NHS.

[Togo]

Mikey your post reminds me of the old retail gag..... "I can buy those for much less down the road"..... Then why don't you buy them there? "Because they are out of stock"..... Ahhhh when we are out of stock we give them away.

[mikey4444]

Togo....I am sure you may be saying something profound, if only I knew what you meant !

[woofgang]

yup....and yet the “feel” to the patient in Bupa (in my experience) is “you want xxx” of course I will get it" and in the NHS “you want xxx????? are you sure??? I am not sure we have any and I can’t give you that much” I am not talking about medicines safety here but simple things like an extra blanket or pillow or a clean water jug or glass.

[Kromovaracun]

I'm sorry, but "run the NHS like a business" is a completely meaningless soundbite unless you're going to outright say you want a completely private healthcare system that functions on insurance.

This mythologising of the private sector and believing in the holy market to solve all problems is just as naive and idealistic as radical leftists who still support a command economy.

[Togo]

Promises , promises, Mikey. :))

[RobNorth]

Nationalisation was great in the 1940's when drones were plentiful, pay was correspondingly low and "facilities" and "conditions" could be and usually were, appalling by today's standards.
The cost of nationalisation today would be very different, by the time all these extra layers of management are inserted, public sector pensions applied....
- a lot of employees have a vehicle of some sort supplied - and several electronic toys - and impressive "time off in lieu" arrangements.....
Great if you can afford it, but can we?

[mikey4444]

Rob...we waste vast sums of money year, in giving public subsidies to the numerous railways companies, brought about the very ill-thought out privatisation process. This subsidy goes straight into the pockets of the shareholders of the companies.

It seems to make excellent sense to use this public money instead to improve our railways network.

[Old_Geezer]

Indeed. Never saw the point of paying investors dividends out of the public purse.

The Labour manifesto is full of interesting worthwhile things provided they have been correctly costed out. But then you get to their attitude on Brexit and rule themselves out completely.