London Attack: Archbishop Warns Against 'religious Illiteracy'

[naomi24]

Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury, has said there is "a lack of religious literacy" among some people who are tackling the terrorist threat.
"They often don't understand the very basic doctrines of the faith they're dealing with and cannot put themselves "in the shoes of religious believers".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-40156995/london-attack-archbishop-justin-welby-warns-against-religious-illiteracy

I don’t often agree with him and he’s clearly chosen his words very carefully throughout this interview, but I don’t think the ignorance he’s talking about applies solely to those dealing with the terrorist threat and that, in itself, creates a problem. However, on this occasion he’s absolutely right to say what some of us have been saying for years.

[jim360]

I guess it's a question of how high that cost can go before it becomes no longer worth it.

The comparison kromo makes with bees does look rather tactless but all the same I think it's an important point. Terrorist attacks are by their nature more dramatic, and more noticeable, but they also remain a comparatively very, *very* low risk, even after the three recent attacks this year. I'm not for a second saying that it's an acceptable risk, and of course we have to work to minimise that risk as far as possible, but we still shouldn't be exaggerating the scale of the risk. Remedy sometimes worse than the disease, and all that.

The nature of the two London attacks, too, seems to be so frighteningly random as to leave me wondering if there's anything meaningful that can be done. All the attackers had to do was to get in a car and drive it really fast into people. I'm not sure that takes a lot of planning, really. At least these people were on the watch list again, as I understand it. Whether that is a comforting thought, or one that just adds to the weight of frustration at the apparent inability the Security Services have to stop all these attacks, I don't know.

[naomi24]

Jim, //The nature of the two London attacks, too, seems to be so frighteningly random as to leave me wondering if there's anything meaningful that can be done. //

I understand that bollards are going to be placed between the pavement and the road on London's bridges, but short of that no one can stop a driver ploughing a vehicle into a crowd.

I think the subject of this thread is being lost, and that's a shame because I for one really would like people to understand the Islamic mind-set. I think it would help simply because I believe our complacency towards Islam is self-destructive.

[pixie374]

I think you're barking up the wrong tree in suggesting it's helpful to understand about Islam. Any answers or solutions will come from people who know about psychology/psychiatry- not from people who can recite the Koran backwards and forwards.
The question is not what they are following- but why. And that is nothing to do with religion- it's their mindset

[naomi24]

Pixie, I can't recite the Koran forwards or backwards, but I, like the archbishop, know what they're following - and why. It's everything to do with religion. No psychiatrist needed.

[Kromovaracun]

My comment about bees wasn't meant to be provocative or to cause offense. If people feel it is distasteful so soon after an attack, I'll happily retract it as I really have no wish to demean the victims.

Regarding the actual topic, yes, I think the automated/choreographed response that we've fallen into doesn't really acknowledge what those attacks are. Religious terrorists care more about their cosmology and their god than anything "worldly" like how divided we will be or what the infidels do. What I don't agree is that this gets us any further to solution, which seems to me impossible with the information available to the public.

[jim360]

Personally I'd see Islam as a catalyst, rather than a cause. And it's not the only driving factor at that. Perhaps we're spoiled in the UK, or just turn a blind eye to it, but if, for example, one turns to the US, then the greater number of mass-murder atrocities have exactly nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with a particular mindset.

[pixie374]

I wasn't referring to you personally, naomi. Just saying that it is not relevant what the excuse is. You and I have never agreed on this- and probably never will :-). The equivalent would be trying to cure somebody who is having hallucinations about wasps, by finding out everything you can about wasps.... It makes no sense and is entirely missing the point.

[agchristie]

Naomi, I think you summed it up yourself regarding Welby's comments.

It certainly doesn't just apply to the fight against terrorism.

[New Judge]

"The question is not what they are following- but why. And that is nothing to do with religion- it's their mindset"

Are you suggesting, then, that if they were followers of Buddhism or perhaps Christianity they would still be slaying people on the streets of London? It is the religion that is the cause. Islam is an intolerant and all-pervasive religion which has no space for non-believers. If they were followers of a more moderate religion I doubt we'd be discussing this now.

[RobNorth]

The Police managed quite well for a century and a half on common sense, without being trained in the mindset of all the religions in the UK (and there are very many)

[naomi24]

RobNorth, but none compares to Islam. Really they don't.

I'm so sorry but I'm too tired to get into this more deeply tonight. I'll try harder tomorrow.

[naomi24]

Morning all. Our tolerance of Islam emanates from ignorance of the fundamental principles of the religion and it’s serving to fuel the fire. Since Mosques and Muslim faith schools teach that which is often contrary to our values and, it could be said, sometimes contrary to our rules and laws, that must be acknowledged and stopped. We talk about importing extremists and extremist ideology from abroad, but we say nothing about children born in this country being trained in the philosophy of Islam by Islamic teachers – in fact many defend Islam’s ‘right’ to do it.

[agchristie]

Naomi > Since Mosques and Muslim faith schools teach that which is often contrary to our values and, it could be said, sometimes contrary to our rules and laws, that must be acknowledged and stopped.

Successive governments have failed to acknowledge the situation let alone attempt to stop it.

Mrs May talked tougher at the weekend but there remains a huge question mark over mosques and faith schools.

Mrs May said once that there is so much more to do than issues relating to Brexit.

Oh how right she is...