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Society & Culture7 mins ago
Was The Conservative Party Right To Withdraw The Whip From Anne Marie Morris
She claimed that the Brexit 'No deal is a n***** in a woodpile’
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Not even sure what this phrase means, especially in regard to Brexit (will look it up later), but perhaps in this instance the phrase is ill-considered rather than specifically offensive?
I mean she wasn't slagging off a black person - just using an out-of-date phrase?
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Not even sure what this phrase means, especially in regard to Brexit (will look it up later), but perhaps in this instance the phrase is ill-considered rather than specifically offensive?
I mean she wasn't slagging off a black person - just using an out-of-date phrase?
Answers
To address the instance first - I think use of the phrase does not show malice or racism, but it does show carelessness and lack of judgement, and those are things that no-one in public life can afford to exhibit - so a sanction is appropraite to show that the government is aware of such issues, and does not allow them to pass unoticed. As to Naomi's well-
21:19 Mon 10th Jul 2017
Had she said *** rather than a similar word would she have been suspended. Or is the furor about the "word" really just hiding the pc stance that nooothing negative must be breathed about our ethnic visitors?
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It depends on whether the phrase was deliberately chosen or not. No one consciously picks out the words they use; each single sentence would takes minutes if one did that. One relies on one's subconscious "sub-routines" to translate the conscious thought into words; and it doesn't always (ever ?) make judgements. It knows of a phrase used without issue in the past and will use it if the description does the job.
But whether fair or not society holds a person responsible for what the do or say. Something had to be done. And the whip probably won't be withdrawn permanently. More of a public slap on the wrist.
But whether fair or not society holds a person responsible for what the do or say. Something had to be done. And the whip probably won't be withdrawn permanently. More of a public slap on the wrist.
...or even more accurately, "the elephant in the room"?
One other problem with the phrase she used is that only people over a certain age will understand what it means.
I asked a few mates at work yesterday - none of them knew what it meant - they're all in the 30 to 45 age group.
It's a bit of an anachronism really.
One other problem with the phrase she used is that only people over a certain age will understand what it means.
I asked a few mates at work yesterday - none of them knew what it meant - they're all in the 30 to 45 age group.
It's a bit of an anachronism really.
Couldn't agree more sp. A phrase that has passed it's use by date, but my query was, " is the 'word' being amplified to hide a different objection. That being, it is deemed to be not pc to offer any criticism of certain identifiable groups. A whitewash will surely be necessary to soothe the angst of the readily horrified. :))
I used the same phrase at a training meeting for school governors three years ago. My immediate apology did not not prevent the chair of governors summoning me to a meeting at which it was clear that I was unwelcome to continue in the role. I resigned as a governor but believe that the punishment did not fit the crime at that time.
Apparently there are even some Black groups trying to stop Blacks from using the N word.
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"I asked a few mates at work yesterday - none of them knew what it meant - they're all in the 30 to 45 age group."
That's unsurprising, sp, since the use of the "N" word has been verboten for probably most and possibly all of their lives.
I find two things strange about that word. The first is that it must not be printed in full even in purely factual reports such as this although everybody knows exactly what the asterisks represent between the "N" and the "R". The second is there seems no prohibition on black people using it and not only using it in passing but to positively offend each other. It's a funny old world.
This woman was clearly insensitive to use the phrase as there are suitable alternatives. However, her "crime" seems to be not only that she used it but she had it in her vocabulary to use.
That's unsurprising, sp, since the use of the "N" word has been verboten for probably most and possibly all of their lives.
I find two things strange about that word. The first is that it must not be printed in full even in purely factual reports such as this although everybody knows exactly what the asterisks represent between the "N" and the "R". The second is there seems no prohibition on black people using it and not only using it in passing but to positively offend each other. It's a funny old world.
This woman was clearly insensitive to use the phrase as there are suitable alternatives. However, her "crime" seems to be not only that she used it but she had it in her vocabulary to use.
"The second is there seems no prohibition on black people using it and not only using it in passing but to positively offend each other. It's a funny old world. "
Not funny at all. It's about intent, context, and to an extent "owning" the word. Black people aren't calling each other or themselves n______ to be offensive -- not to themselves, at least. Calling a black person a such-and-such to their face when you aren't either black or their friend will get you in a heap of trouble because either you're trying to be offensive or you haven't shown that you aren't being.
I'd have thought that the idea that words have a meaning based on who says them, when, where and to whom isn't exactly a difficult one to get. Rather like when David Lammy referred to "posh white people", everyone on AB got, if not offended, then certainly angry especially about the "white" part. With some good reason, I might add -- but to then act surprised when black people might also be upset about being described as "you black [insult]", or "you N", is the height of hypocrisy.
As I say, I don't for a second believe that Anne Morris was trying to be offensive. It's an error of judgement and she should pay the consequences of that error of judgement. Whether that amounts to having the whip permanently withdrawn I don't know, but it's the lack of judgement that is the issue here.
Not funny at all. It's about intent, context, and to an extent "owning" the word. Black people aren't calling each other or themselves n______ to be offensive -- not to themselves, at least. Calling a black person a such-and-such to their face when you aren't either black or their friend will get you in a heap of trouble because either you're trying to be offensive or you haven't shown that you aren't being.
I'd have thought that the idea that words have a meaning based on who says them, when, where and to whom isn't exactly a difficult one to get. Rather like when David Lammy referred to "posh white people", everyone on AB got, if not offended, then certainly angry especially about the "white" part. With some good reason, I might add -- but to then act surprised when black people might also be upset about being described as "you black [insult]", or "you N", is the height of hypocrisy.
As I say, I don't for a second believe that Anne Morris was trying to be offensive. It's an error of judgement and she should pay the consequences of that error of judgement. Whether that amounts to having the whip permanently withdrawn I don't know, but it's the lack of judgement that is the issue here.
> Was The Conservative Party Right To Withdraw The Whip From Anne Marie Morris?
Yes, on the grounds of gross stupidity. You just don't use the n word unless you are black. Simple rule. She didn't even use the phrase properly, even if it had been acceptable!
I know that the phrase exists and I know what it means and where it comes from, but, given that I never use it, it could never slip out "unintentionally". There are lots of other ways of saying the same thing, ways that sp might actually understand!
To me, the fact that she used it in public shows that it is a phrase she uses commonly in private, probably in all sorts of inappropriate contexts e.g. instead of "elephant in the room" or "biggest problem".
Yes, on the grounds of gross stupidity. You just don't use the n word unless you are black. Simple rule. She didn't even use the phrase properly, even if it had been acceptable!
I know that the phrase exists and I know what it means and where it comes from, but, given that I never use it, it could never slip out "unintentionally". There are lots of other ways of saying the same thing, ways that sp might actually understand!
To me, the fact that she used it in public shows that it is a phrase she uses commonly in private, probably in all sorts of inappropriate contexts e.g. instead of "elephant in the room" or "biggest problem".
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