Was The Conservative Party Right To Withdraw The Whip From Anne Marie Morris

[sp1814]

She claimed that the Brexit 'No deal is a n***** in a woodpile’

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/anne-marie-morris-racist_uk_5963b0cae4b03f144e2c7c78

Not even sure what this phrase means, especially in regard to Brexit (will look it up later), but perhaps in this instance the phrase is ill-considered rather than specifically offensive?

I mean she wasn't slagging off a black person - just using an out-of-date phrase?

[kvalidir]

Jack she IS suspended x

[kvalidir]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40555639

[jno]

suspended from the party, not from parliament. She's now an independent MP.

[EDDIE51]

jno, read the link I posted at 21.31 an MP who is suspended CAN NOT take ANY part in parliamentary procedure , they can not even enter the house of commons let alone vote! They are not paid during the suspension and their constituents will have no representation while their MP is suspended.
In short , while suspended they are no longer a Member of Parliament.
To become an independent MP she would first have to resign from Parliament by 'Applying for the Chiltern Hundreds' and then fight a new by election as an independent.

[ladybirder]

She's been suspended from the Tory Party, not from Parliament, as I understand it. And I read your link Eddie.

[EDDIE51]

An MP can not resign as in an ordinary job, instead they have to 'Apply For The Chiltern Hundreds' which is a fictitious post with no duties.
This applies even if an MP is expelled, in this case they would be forced to 'Apply for The Chiltern Hundreds' as a way of sacking them.
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/apply+for+Chiltern+Hundreds

[andy-hughes]

To address the instance first - I think use of the phrase does not show malice or racism, but it does show carelessness and lack of judgement, and those are things that no-one in public life can afford to exhibit - so a sanction is appropraite to show that the government is aware of such issues, and does not allow them to pass unoticed.

As to Naomi's well-reasoned argument that the sting can be taken out of any offensive term if the objects of it are willing to act as one - that is unfortunately arguing on the basis of logic, which does not allow for human nature.

Black people are stigmatised - not to anything like the degree they have been in the past - but a degree of stigma is still present, and black people are sensitive to it.

In terms of black people using the word '***' amongst themselves, that is simply the ownership of an insult taken back by its recipients, and losing its venom in the process.

As a white middle-class man, I could argue that this is pointless posturing, which incidentally I don't, but I have no direct experience of racism, and how it feels, maybe if I did, I would view the issue differently.

I think it is easy to scoff at the ways different people deal with their social issues - if you don't suffer from the yourself, and part of being a sensible balanced human being is awareness of the senstivities of others. That doesn;t mean agreeing with them, or championng them, but a little tolerence is free, and helps the world to turn that bit more smoothly.

[sp1814]

...but with the whip taken away, can she still vote (as an independent)?

[EDDIE51]

She has 'Had The Whip Withdrawn' that means she is suspended as an MP until the Whip is restored. As I have said, an MP who has had the Whip withdrawn (or suspended to use an everyday term )CAN NOT even enter The House of Commons. Until the Whip is restored they are not an MP. She has also been suspended from the Conservative party AS WELL as having the whip withdrawn!
Looks like she is getting the chop !

[EDDIE51]

For the third time NO SHE CAN NOT VOTE !!!!
SHE CAN NOT EVEN ENTER THE HOUSE OF COMMONS !!!
She is no longer an MP or a member of the Conservative party !!!!

[sp1814]

Some good point there A-H. I agree that Morris wasn't showing racism or malice - it's just a very anachronistic phrase to use by an MP in 2017.

If she were a member of the Wu Tang Clan, she might've gotten away with it (if they were still relevant).

[Peter Pedant]

oh dear we are back to taboo words
do they exist ? ( yeah)
why ? - by observation all societies seem to have them
do they change with time ? yes

it reminds of the Brexit threads - o how I miss them - nothing new - the same hundred posts day after day

I was told not to use it at least fifty years ago
( whether or not it features in British afro caribbean slang)

[jno]

Eddie, this is an internal Tory party affair. They have suspended her from membership. They have no power to suspend her from parliament. She is still an MP, though not a Tory one, and she can still vote. The Tories' majority is now one less; but they may well decide to reinstate her.

[Peter Pedant]

well OK who is gonna be the first one to splatter gun the word 'frack' all over this thread on the eminently logical grounds that taboo words are 'stupid' ?

[Peter Pedant]

for the third time ed
she hasnt been suspended by the Speaker ( John Berserkow)

so she can go in an do all those CAPITAL LETTER things erm you said she couldnt

[jno]

indeed, PP, it's not like it became taboo last week; but I think the taboo doesn't always register when you use idioms where the meaning is purely metaphorical. (What on earth would an N be doing in a woodpile anyway?) It might be interesting to search the archives of some newspapers and see when they last used it.

[-Talbot-]

What is racism and what isn't racism is as clear as mud these days.

Maybe in 50 years time you will not be able to advertise jobs in this manner.

''Roles are only open to UK nationals from a black, Asian or non-white ethnic minority.''

[Jackdaw33]

Eddie, you don't know what you're talking about, but nothing new there. In the last parliament 2 SNP MPs had the whip withdrawn. They sat as independents.

[jourdain2]

Well, just to say that I would probably say 'The n....r in the woodpile' without thinking that I should try to say something else, because it is embedded in my early-learned vocabulary and doesn't mean any harm. I still think of a particular colour as 'n....r' brown and not 'Donkey brown' for the same reason. People are over-sensitive these days - a slip of the tongue in this case is interpreted as racism. Unfortunately the Twitterati and 'holier-than-thous' are on the case :(

[douglas9401]

I think the fact that there's a woodpile at all speaks volumes for their priorities as we hurtle toward the abyss re dangerous climate change.

Why oh why oh why etc.