ChatterBank1 min ago
As If The Nhs Isn't Stretched Enough........
21 Answers
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Is it wise to open the flood gates for unnecessary procedures when the NHS is under pressure just trying to do routine functions?
Is it wise to open the flood gates for unnecessary procedures when the NHS is under pressure just trying to do routine functions?
Answers
No. It’s neither wise nor right. You cannot choose what sex you are. You are either born male or female, and no amount of chopping things off or adding things on will change that. If people really want to be something they are not, then they should have to pay for it themselves. Liked the error in the article that said “Education Secretary Justine Greening,...
15:32 Tue 25th Jul 2017
I may have read the proposals wrongly but if they plan to de-medicalise the procedure and make it more administrative based wouldn't that ease things from an NHS point of view?
I know there have been other concerns raised.
//Critics claimed allowing people to effectively “self identify” as a member of the opposite sex, while maintaining the anatomy of their birth gender, could unleash legal cases over access to women-only hospital wards, prisons, toilets, and competitive sports.//
But that's not what you're asking.
I know there have been other concerns raised.
//Critics claimed allowing people to effectively “self identify” as a member of the opposite sex, while maintaining the anatomy of their birth gender, could unleash legal cases over access to women-only hospital wards, prisons, toilets, and competitive sports.//
But that's not what you're asking.
No. It’s neither wise nor right.
You cannot choose what sex you are.
You are either born male or female, and no amount of chopping things off or adding things on will change that.
If people really want to be something they are not, then they should have to pay for it themselves.
Liked the error in the article that said “Education Secretary Justine Greening, who is also equalities minister, said HE wanted to remove the stigma faced by transpeople.”
You cannot choose what sex you are.
You are either born male or female, and no amount of chopping things off or adding things on will change that.
If people really want to be something they are not, then they should have to pay for it themselves.
Liked the error in the article that said “Education Secretary Justine Greening, who is also equalities minister, said HE wanted to remove the stigma faced by transpeople.”
Why this idea that this will "open the flood gates"? They only way that makes sense is if you genuinely believe that being transgender is a decision you can make in the blink of an eye -- not in practice, I mean, but independent of what the law is. Do you believe that a man can wake up one morning and say, "oh wait I'm actually a woman -- time to chop my bits off then and uproot my life and change every single relationship I have right now!" (or vice versa) , without any history to suggest so?
It's belittling, and a nonsense, and an insult to the dilemma anyone who seriously has questions over their gender identity. If anything, this is actually a reason for making the law less tight, because it's enough stress as it is to contemplate telling your parents, who have known you longer than you have known yourself, that they have seen the wrong person all along; to tell your friends that they should see you differently from now on; perhaps, for many people, to tell your partner that you are not the person they married; to tell your children that now you are not their mum anymore but their dad; and to face all the stigma from others this still provokes, day in and day out. On top of that, to have the law often require you to live as your identity without surgery for months or years (so that you may stick out like the proverbial sore thumb, and thus risk exposing yourself to ridicule in day-to-day life); or to have to undergo rigorous testing for what ought at its heart to be a personal matter anyway, is invasive and just adds to the stress for those affected.
I can see the case you are trying to make. This is absolutely not a decision to be made lightly, and the law partly tries to ensure that. But, frankly, transpeople know that well enough already, thank you very much.
It's belittling, and a nonsense, and an insult to the dilemma anyone who seriously has questions over their gender identity. If anything, this is actually a reason for making the law less tight, because it's enough stress as it is to contemplate telling your parents, who have known you longer than you have known yourself, that they have seen the wrong person all along; to tell your friends that they should see you differently from now on; perhaps, for many people, to tell your partner that you are not the person they married; to tell your children that now you are not their mum anymore but their dad; and to face all the stigma from others this still provokes, day in and day out. On top of that, to have the law often require you to live as your identity without surgery for months or years (so that you may stick out like the proverbial sore thumb, and thus risk exposing yourself to ridicule in day-to-day life); or to have to undergo rigorous testing for what ought at its heart to be a personal matter anyway, is invasive and just adds to the stress for those affected.
I can see the case you are trying to make. This is absolutely not a decision to be made lightly, and the law partly tries to ensure that. But, frankly, transpeople know that well enough already, thank you very much.
swap and change over if you realised you made a mistake..where does it end, i feel folicaly challenged may commit suicide, my percy is not big enough i may commit suicide fix me, i want to be taller as i feel i dont fit in, i think if i had more of a western nose i would feel better, where does it end, it's mental illness not surgery they need, how much should we spend ? unlimited, where do you draw the line, im having a heart attack..oh wait...no room for you..let the whole bloody thing crash and take private insurance.
From the article it is unclear to me whether this is about surgery or simply paperwork.
I doubt it has anything to do about suddenly waking up and deciding to live as a different gender to the one you are, but there must be genuine concerns over making it easy for folk to make such a decision without the dedication it now requires to show permanent commitment to the lifestyle transition.
I doubt it has anything to do about suddenly waking up and deciding to live as a different gender to the one you are, but there must be genuine concerns over making it easy for folk to make such a decision without the dedication it now requires to show permanent commitment to the lifestyle transition.
It doesn’t matter how many operations, or how many pills you swallow, a bloke in a frock will always look like a bloke in a frock.
Admittedly, a woman who has had the op can look more like a man. Presumably because a woman can look a bit ‘blokey’ but a man may sound feminine and act feminine, but won’t look feminine.
Jim @ 17.17: “to tell your partner that you are not the person they married; to tell your children that now you are not their mum anymore but their dad”
If as you say people, don’t wake up an the morning and say “I’m actually (the opposite gender)” then they must have known when they married and had children, and were being incredibly selfish in doing so.
There are other real medical conditions to be treated, which also affect those you love.
Telling your parents, who have known you longer than you have known yourself, that you have cancer and can’t get life enhancing drugs because the NHS says they are too expensive.
Telling your children you can’t play with them any more because the operation you need has such a long waiting list.
And why are all these different types of trans-whatever so rife now?
I know that society is more accepting, but when it became acceptable, there weren’t a load of age 50+ people suddenly coming out of the closet because it's now OK.
Admittedly, a woman who has had the op can look more like a man. Presumably because a woman can look a bit ‘blokey’ but a man may sound feminine and act feminine, but won’t look feminine.
Jim @ 17.17: “to tell your partner that you are not the person they married; to tell your children that now you are not their mum anymore but their dad”
If as you say people, don’t wake up an the morning and say “I’m actually (the opposite gender)” then they must have known when they married and had children, and were being incredibly selfish in doing so.
There are other real medical conditions to be treated, which also affect those you love.
Telling your parents, who have known you longer than you have known yourself, that you have cancer and can’t get life enhancing drugs because the NHS says they are too expensive.
Telling your children you can’t play with them any more because the operation you need has such a long waiting list.
And why are all these different types of trans-whatever so rife now?
I know that society is more accepting, but when it became acceptable, there weren’t a load of age 50+ people suddenly coming out of the closet because it's now OK.
I don't think I've ever seen you, TTT, demonstrate any willingness to understand this, so I'm not surprised at your posts, but I do wish you'd *try* to give more credit to the struggle even 1% of what transpeople face up to.
As to Bigbad's "selfish" remark. Well... when there's something about who you are that you feel ashamed of, what else will you do but repress it and try to live your life as if it weren't a part of you? At some point, the lie either becomes too much or you become too used to burying it, but many lives have indeed been ruined that way. But, again, to call it "selfish" is to belittle the dilemma these people face. Making the path to legal acceptance difficult only adds to that dilemma.
As to Bigbad's "selfish" remark. Well... when there's something about who you are that you feel ashamed of, what else will you do but repress it and try to live your life as if it weren't a part of you? At some point, the lie either becomes too much or you become too used to burying it, but many lives have indeed been ruined that way. But, again, to call it "selfish" is to belittle the dilemma these people face. Making the path to legal acceptance difficult only adds to that dilemma.
Someone gets a bee in their bonnet, and decides to hang on to it.
Their choice, of course, but yes, I do think that feelings can be repressed, and if you have chosen to marry someone of the opposite sex and have children with them, and then decide you would rather be Martha than Arthur, then yes I think it’s extremely selfish, because you are doing what is best for YOU.
Much in the news recently, Great Ormond Street Hospital has to rely on charitable donations, and some hospitals have to raise their own funds to replace outdated vital equipment, yet it’s possible for a trans person to live the dream and have their fantasies become a reality on the NHS.
There is something morally and reprehensibly wrong about this.
Their choice, of course, but yes, I do think that feelings can be repressed, and if you have chosen to marry someone of the opposite sex and have children with them, and then decide you would rather be Martha than Arthur, then yes I think it’s extremely selfish, because you are doing what is best for YOU.
Much in the news recently, Great Ormond Street Hospital has to rely on charitable donations, and some hospitals have to raise their own funds to replace outdated vital equipment, yet it’s possible for a trans person to live the dream and have their fantasies become a reality on the NHS.
There is something morally and reprehensibly wrong about this.
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