Shafted Or Liberated?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40842017

[jim360]

"Most of those who thought for themselves... voted to leave."

NJ, that's the most patronising and arrogant crap I've ever seen come from you. Only slightly tempered by later when you criticise Remainers of being brainwashed, then concede that some leavers only voted that way under your "careful guidance and mentoring".

How about this for a suggestion? Most people who voted to Leave did what they thought was right for the country. Most people who voted to Remain also did what they thought was right for the country. A few on either side were tisspits whose "reasoning" behind their decision was essentially non-existent. But neither side could know if they were genuinely, objectively, unambiguously correct to vote the way they did, and neither side will ever really know this either -- history doesn't work that way.

But this attempt to dismiss Remainers as mostly or all deluded, groupthinking, or incapable of free thought is pathetic, arrogant, and frankly dangerous. Leavers spend a lot of time moaning of being dismissed as racist or whatever over adjectives are sometimes thrown around, and rightly so (most racists will have voted to Leave if they voted at all, but most people and so most Leave voters aren't racist). But to invert the attack is just hypocrisy. Get rid of it.

I came to my decision after thinking about it freely. So did most people who voted to Remain. Show them some respect.

[mikey4444]

Hear hear Jim !

[naomi24]

from RobNorth at 22:58 Sun, //He should also know that older people think of little else but their children and grandchildren//

Absolutely right. Unfortunately, until they become old, the young will never understand that. They’ve always been under the delusion that they know it all.

[youngmafbog]

Jim, any chance you could do a little precis of your rants, lifes too short to read that lot.

My thoughts about Cable are unprintable and not just because of his Brexit nonsense.

I know plenty of under 35 leave voters, just as I know plenty of over 35 voters. Trying to categorize when there are no stats one way or another is sheer nonsense, but then remoaners are good at that.
If you dont know ANY under 35 leavers then I'd suggest, as NJ says, you really do need to get out more.

[Khandro]

An interesting point made by Rory Sutherland is that the UK has a particular problem with its political filter bubble, and as few young people buy or pay for news, getting it instead from the internet, and because there is no high quality journalism available free from the moderate right wing press; The Times, the Telegraph, The Spectator, the FT and the Economist all sit behind paywalls, whereas the Guardian, the New Statesman, the Independent, the Huffington Post, and BBC online are all free as are the more outlandish right wing publications: Brietbart, Mail Online and Fox News etc.

Conservatives, almost by definition, are happy to pay for what they consume. They therefore pay for Conservative journalism, which means they are the only people who get to read it.

[Kromovaracun]

The boomer generation has gutted job security and overseen wage stagnation, stacked the property market massively and unnaturally against newcomers (and therefore damaged the ability of younger generations to save), wrecked the jobs market where both experience and education are now considered essentials (you can very rarely have both if you are young). Then there's the historically massive pension bill which today's under-employed and typically underpaid youth will have to spend their working lives paying for (squeezed between their ever increasing rent and minimally growing pay).

I can't really see Brexit changing any of that, save for maybe causing an absolutely major fall in house prices and perhaps coming within a whisker of making property a realistically affordable prospect for young people.

[naomi24]

Khandro at 08:14, a good point - but there are many who, since it doesn't support their own opinions, wouldn't read it anyway.

[mikey4444]

Has anyone noticed that all the people who voted to remain, are all presumed to be stupid ?

All 16,141,241 of them !

[kvalidir]

I have to be honest I know very few people under or over 35 who voted 'leave', but I think that's because by and large 'birds of a feather flock together'. I wouldn't imagine many remainers would know many leavers compared to fellow remainers- so all this 'I know plenty of leavers', ' I know plenty of remainers' nonsense just really doesn't fly in either direction. According to polls, more older people voted to leave and younger ones voted to stay. I can believe that because younger people can't remember the 'glory days' before the EU where we had an unintelligible monetary system the rest of the world couldn't understand, hangings were socially acceptable and there were public information films warning about homosexuals. We can't remember it, it doesn't sound very appealing, and essentially even if we could we realise you can't recreate something, which actually seems to be what a lot of remainers want to do. I don;'t think BREXIT will actually happen, but if it does we have options obviously, so I'm not sure why there is such delight by some in driving a wedge between generations. I actually respect the intention behind the way most people voted, I simply have an issues that there was a referendum in the first place, as I don't think joe public ( of any age) is suitably equipped to make a genuinely logical decision about something to complex, and people who think it's not complex exactly underline my point.

[Khandro]

mikey //Has anyone noticed that all the people who voted to remain, are all presumed to be stupid, All 16,141,241 of them !//

Which proves the point that fools go around in large numbers :0)

[Old_Geezer]

No error in your post that I can see Mikey. The "older" was superfluous, and a truism as a result.

[youngmafbog]

//According to polls//

Your argument collapses there!

Mickey, it is usually the remainers who refer to the leavers as 'stupid', certainly my experience anyway.

Given the vote was very close I suspect many leavers know many remainers and visa versa. It just doesnt stack up that they wouldnt; unless someone is pretty much a loner.

[Old_Geezer]

I'm willing to believe most thought about their vote, to whatever level they could, and voted for what they decided was right. I just find it unfortunate that whilst some wanted to control their own country, others didn't feel safe unless dictated to by others outside of our nation.

Seems unsupportive of one's own country to me. It's not like we are simply exiting a trade group, that was something we previously thought we were voting for; we have opted to exit a controlling power that wants to assimilate each individual nation into itself leaving the individual nations little more than regions that will do as they're told.

[naomi24]

youngmafbog, Because it’s such a controversial issue I think many people are reluctant to tell others how they voted. One of my best friends wouldn’t ‘cough up’ until I told her how I’d voted – so those who say they know no or few ‘remainers/leavers’ could well be mistaken.

[Peter Pedant]

shafted - deffo

the olds in the family asked the youngsters how they wanted us to vote and trooped out en masses and did so

[Peter Pedant]

// - but there are many who, since it doesn't support their own opinions, wouldn't read it anyway.// someone

doesnt anyone here think before they tap tap tap away on AB?
the reader doesnt know if a script supports his opinions or not until he has read it.

oh they see it is Kh again ( probably by reading the header) and think o crip again - erm well that's bit prejudiced innit ?

normal day ....
oh, the whole fambly voted to remain

[naomi24]

PeterPedant, //doesnt anyone here think before they tap tap tap away on AB?//

Clearly some don’t.

[mikey4444]

According to the majority opinion here on AB, the remainers and are now remoaners, and are therefore wrong !

[jim360]

"Jim, any chance you could do a little precis of your rants, lifes too short to read that lot."

It's only four paragraphs... but the TLDR is the last one really.

[naomi24]

What's the TLDR?