Further Signs Of The Islamification Of Britain?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-41160596
How long before Muhammad gets to number 1?

[Kromovaracun]

and lest I be accused of "ignoring the problem", yes, I think there are serious problems with integration re: the Muslim community, which I think can be solved through policy (removing faith schools, disbanding special religious courts, etc.)

[vetuste_ennemi]

What's "dodgy" about the extrapolations? I can remember Enoch Powell being hooted at derisively when he said that there was a street in Wolverhampton with only one old white woman in it. "Ho, ho, Ho! He, he , he! Liar! Scare mongerer!".

If Powell had said that white Britons would be a minority in their own capital city within fifty years time, nobody, but nobody would have believed him. But he would have been right,

[anotheoldgit]

/// it's the 'Royalisation' of Britain you should be worrying about! ///

Yes an ABer actually put those words, one just couldn't make it up.

[jim360]

One other thing is that you need to have enough data to make a meaningful extrapolation. So far as I can tell, since 2001 the Muslim population has grown at roughly an average of 100,000 per year, but I don't know if this is linear growth or not. This matter because if it's linear then the dangers of "Islamification" are essentially nil because the rest of the UK population is also growing roughly linearly at a faster rate, and would then always outpace the number of Muslims in a naive extrapolation, but the other thing about that paragraph is that everything I've said just now is essentially meaningless (no jokes please).

But anyway. No extrapolations on current rates carry much real meaning, because -- presumably -- in a couple of years or so the UK might have new immigration policies that change the population statistics significantly.

[anotheoldgit]

/// assumes that the next generation of muslims will be equally as devout as their parents. ///

I think that it has been proven that some young Muslims are even more devout that their parents.

[Kromovaracun]

//What's "dodgy" about the extrapolations?//

I feel I explained this. The assumptions behind it that I mentioned.

Powell had not verified the letter he was dramatically waving around about the Wolverhampton woman. He had not bothered to check whether the woman mentioned in it was a real person - indeed despite diligent investigation over years by Clem Jones, the woman he mentioned has never been found.

Sorry, but your example of prescient extrapolation appears to have been a piece of political theatre worthy of the nineteenth century.

[Khandro]

If you want to understand how the EU got us into this catastrophe, please go to http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question1571776.html

And watch the last video at the end of the thread

[anotheoldgit]

The advantage that our Muslim immigrants have over us is the fact that their mother countries have gained their independence and they can go back to them at any time.

Unlike us, we can never gain our independence from them.

[vetuste_ennemi]

//'Extrapolating the numbers' is a bit dodgy, though. Because a) it assumes that the next generation of muslims will produce offspring as prolifically as their parents (many of whom are relatively recent immigrants from cultures where this is the norm), and b) the implicit fear - that the UK will be "islamified" - assumes that the next generation of muslims will be equally as devout as their parents. //


These are thoughtful observations.

Re the first one, Kromo, this was the argument used in Powell's day: the birth rate of the new young immigrants will fall to "normal" levels in time. This has turned out not to be true. This is, in part, because of the prevalence of first cousin marriage where the girl or boy go back to to the "home country" to get a spouse - a process facilitated by Jack Straw's repeal of the Primary Purpose law. (Now 70% of Bradford Muslims are married to first cousins). So the process of assimilation is constantly deferred.

Let's take Kromo's second point - the "implicit fear" of Islamisation. I think the opposite is true: the new generation is more devout (perhaps more conscious of its Muslim identity is a better way to put it) than its parents. And I can offer a number of explanations one of the most significant of which is radicalisation of British mosques by the import of the importing of Wahabbi and Deobandi clerics funded by you know who.

So, having read your late post, I think your assumptions are false.

[sp1814]

TTT

Looking at the pure maths, Muhammad could easily become the most popular boys’ name in the country without the number of Muslims increasing overall.

That’s because Muhammad (and derivations of the name (are very popular amongst Muslim parents). The name might increase in popularity without any significant rise in the numbers of Muslims.

Therefore, the fact that it’s number eight in the current chart doesn’t necessarily mean th country is getting more Islamified.

[Khandro]

' In Hungary, Prime Minister Viktor Orban—who is emerging as a prime contender to snatch Vladimir Putin’s long-held title of The Man With The Biggest Balls In Europe—sent a letter to pervy-looking EU President Jean-Claude Juncker insisting that his nation neither wants nor deserves refugees:

[i] Hungary is not an immigrant country, does not want to become an immigrant country and cannot accept being forced to change this….[Hungary] has no colonial past….If instead of defending our borders, the European Commission is willing to finance solely measures and organisations that aim to facilitate the admission of migrants, then we will only give incentives to hundreds of thousands of migrants who wish to move to Europe, instead of curbing migration…. [i ]


Orban says that many other European leaders agree with him but are terrified to admit it publicly. That seems to be very common these days—that whole thing about agreeing with people but being terrorized into silence. Someone should really do something about that. The situation has become so tyrannical that some would suggest a violent overthrow is the only possible solution; many would agree but would, of course, be terrified to admit it publicly.'

[vetuste_ennemi]

The last point is true as a point of math, but not of fact. The Muslim birth rate is more than double the non-Muslim rate, the Muslim 3-4%(?) of the population accounting for one tenth of all births last year. This percentage will be considerably higher in all our major cities.

Whether this matters or not is a different question.

[vetuste_ennemi]

My post a ref to SP's.

[Kromovaracun]

//And I can offer a number of explanations one of the most significant of which is radicalisation of British mosques by the import of the importing of Wahabbi and Deobandi clerics funded by you know who.//

This, I will agree, is definitely a serious problem which does not currently receive anything like enough attention and is a blatant national security threat. Like I say though, I think that is a problem which can be solved with better policymaking (though I imagine the reason it isn't is probably a result of some deal with the funding powers which is not presently in the public eye and therefore harder to scrutinise).

[whiskeryron]

I was called 6&7/8ths they pulled my name out of a hat.

[Togo]

You might wish to also note that Muhammad although "only" eighth in the list would however top it, if two other common alternative spellings were included. So not 3,898 Muhammads, but in excess of 6,623. You will have to rework the maths. :))

[Peter Pedant]

islamification is making something islamic

and I dont see that calling your kid Mohd is converting anything that wasnt previously islamic to a muslim thing

picky I know
is it further irrefutable evidence that we will all be killed in our beds with knife wielding brown skinned men in turbans chanting God is great ? er and called Mohd
yeah most probably.....

[Peter Pedant]

// the Muslim 3-4%(?) of the population accounting for one tenth of all births last year. This percentage will be considerably higher in all our major cities. //

and will probably reach 100% in smaller units such as muslim households
maff is such wonderful stuff

//I was called 6&7/8ths they pulled my name out of a hat.//
serious comment this
Lady - Hi I'm Plenty
James Bond for it is he: I can shee that
Lady - no no my names Plenty - Plenty O'Toole
James Bond - named after your father perhaps
shot falls back to the casino table

[vetuste_ennemi]

//and I dont see that calling your kid Mohd is converting anything that wasnt previously islamic to a muslim thing//

Forcing non-Muslim children to eat halal meat is.

Etc etc, but he knows that already.

As someone who claims to have spent years in Islamic countries it would be nice if Mr Pedant could give us an example of a Muslim majority country which is a show case for tolerance and would allay fears that more Islam is bad for everybody who is not Muslim and half of those who are.

[New Judge]

"in a couple of years or so the UK might have new immigration policies that change the population statistics significantly."

As far as I understand it, Jim, there are no proposals to alter the UK's immigration policies from Muslim countries. The (Brexit) proposals only suggest that immigration from the remainder of the EU will be affected.

In any case, immigration is not the main driver of Muslim population growth in the UK. It is the growth of those already here that is the main problem. There is no doubt that the birth rate among Muslims is far higher than most of the rest of the population and this is already beginning to have an effect on the overall percentage of Muslims present in the UK.