Spain

[Spicerack]

Anybody ' got a handle' on what's going on. Is it a Left/Right thing. Eu/anti-Eu.
Are the Eu dictating to the Spanish government?

[mikey4444]

Spicey...we posted at almost the same moment !

[Spicerack]

So I noticed, lol.
We've asked different sort of questions, so may as well leave them both up, eh?

[Zacs-Master]

It's nothing to do with the EU.

[youngmafbog]

Well the EU would certainly not like an independent Catalonia but I dont think Madrid needs much encouragement to stop it.

[Kromovaracun]

As far as I can tell....

Catalan govt resolved to hold a referendum on independence, through their regional parliament.

Opposition parties boycotted, meaning the referendum passed with a simple majority. The Catalan constitution says they need a super-majority to do this, but they decided it was legal anyway and carried on.

The Spanish govt is the one responsible for distributing ballots, and refused on the grounds that the referendum is illegal. So Catalan govt produced their own illegal ones.

Spanish supreme court has ruled the referendum illegal. Catalan govt continued anyway.

Now the Spanish police are occupying polling stations - because they are illegal - and Catalans are complaining about their illegal referendum being suppressed and using it to make political capital and drum up support for independence.

Seems like an utterly cynical and irresponsible power grab by local elites who don't give a damn about what's best for the people to me. But I'm sure there are other opinions.

[mikey4444]

I agree Spicey, although I too, don't think its much to do with the EU.

One thing I do understand is that the Catalan independence movement has been active for many years. To try to stop people voting, by sending in armed Police would just seem to be throwing petrol on the fire.

[Kromovaracun]

In fairness Mikey it's hard to see what else they could possibly do. If they allow the Catalan govt to flaunt both the Catalan AND the Spanish constitution they are effectively giving them all the power they want anyway.

[youngmafbog]

No Mickey, it is just plain bloody stupid. The Government have played into the Catalonian separatists hands.

[gulliver1]

Thought some people on here you new everything.

[youngmafbog]

Krom, allowing the 'referendum' to continue then, as it is not legally binding, push it away as they have done in the past would not have been giving in to the separatists. as it is they Madrid Government now looks like the old Franco Spain.

Police using violence is a very stupid thing to do.

[Kromovaracun]

That's true, I suppose. This is exactly what the separatists want. Especially as they now have images of police occupying schools.

God, what a complete train wreck.

[Old_Geezer]

The thing is that, legal or illegal, it doesn't affect the public seeing the Spanish government preventing the Catalan people holding a Catalan poll which the Catalan people voted for. As a PR exercise it's a disaster for the Spanish government and a gift to the separatists. Imagine if the UK had prevented the Scottish vote on independance because they hadn't wanted the poll enough.

[mikey4444]

I'm listening to Broadcasting House at the moment, as usual on a Sunday morning, and I have just heard Police breaking down the doors of a School, used as a Polling Station. There is also widespread reports of people being attacked by the Police.

[mikey4444]

I think we are all agreeing that this is a PR disaster for the Spanish Government.

[Zacs-Master]

It doesn't help the Catalonian's cause to have the far right pxc movement on their side. I wonder how much their involvement is helping.

[gulliver1]

What a pity this should happen in Spain today, it has pushed the Con party Conference out of the News,
What a shame,

[ichkeria]

Nothing whatever to do with the EU.
An illegal referendum rightly being clamped down on.

[Jennykenny]

I was living in Madrid when Franco died.
Got a week of school and all the balconies and front doors were draped in black crepe.
In Barcelona they ran out of Cava.
Slightly different approach.

[Jennykenny]

Off school.

[KARL]

This seems to me to be a clear example of an attempt to prevent a widespread opinion being discussed and measured. Those who don't want the idea to be expressed among themselves (i.e. within Catalonia) pulled out of the discussion in an attempt to discredit the mere discussion per se. Those who currently control the geographical area and oppose letting those who want to run their own affairs do so are trying to close down the idea's expression.

It is abundantly clear that a substantial percentage of the Catalan population wants at very least to establish what the percentages are for, against and undecided/uninterested. As others have said, the central government of Spain is looking the least impressive of the lot. The question is certainly not going to go away even though it is easy to imagine that today's referendum will turn out to be inconclusive, if only because of the disruption.

As also said already, this has nothing to do with the EU - in the event of Catalan independence, discussions on EU membership would follow, just as they would/will in the event of Scottish independence and in the case of any/all other European (and maybe even non-European) states which are (were) not already members.